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To CGCS or not to CGCS?

28 posts
  1. Darren Graf
    Darren Graf avatar
    0 posts
    10/22/2015 10:10 AM
    Just looking for some pros and cons regarding the CGCS program. What do you guys think?



  2. Terry Negen
    Terry Negen avatar
    0 posts
    10/22/2015 10:10 AM
    I am in the process of doing my certification and it is a very grueling process, first the portfolio, I would recommend doing the paper version just so that you can have others proofread it VERY WELL. They are sticklers for any grammar and spelling errors, I had a proofreader and had 2/3 of mine returned for grammatical errrors. The test in my words is hard to study for I took the preparing your way to certification class at the GIS and there were questions that were very hard to comprehend. Know the rules of golf, I am a 12 handicap and there were two rules on the test that even my golf pro did not know the answer to. Be brushed up on all species of turfgrass because being a northern superintendent there were a lot of questions that I didn't know the answer to not being around those grasses, but I have read material about the care of them. The easiest part of the certification was the attesting of your course. I am attempting to become certified for my own gratification and to give my club the privilage of having a certified superintendent and sharing my knowledge with the membership.

    Terry Negen, Superintendent
    Marshall Golf Club
    MArshall, MN



  3. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    10/22/2015 12:10 PM
    It depends on your reasons for wanting to do it. I did it because that was a goal I set for myself when I started in this business. Certification has not made me a nickel.

    Regards,

    Steve



  4. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/22/2015 12:10 PM
    I agree with Steve, it was a goal of mine.

    I also thought it would help me in future endeavors, but through my long career, I don't think it has really helped me with new jobs or even getting interviews, mostly because my background has been at mid level at best, public courses or municipal or university courses. I do think if you have some good courses on your resume, it could be helpful, but that is just my opinion.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  5. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    10/22/2015 1:10 PM
    Terry Negen said: I am in the process of doing my certification and it is a very grueling process, first the portfolio, I would recommend doing the paper version just so that you can have others proofread it VERY WELL. They are sticklers for any grammar and spelling errors, I had a proofreader and had 2/3 of mine returned for grammatical errrors. The test in my words is hard to study for I took the preparing your way to certification class at the GIS and there were questions that were very hard to comprehend. Know the rules of golf, I am a 12 handicap and there were two rules on the test that even my golf pro did not know the answer to. Be brushed up on all species of turfgrass because being a northern superintendent there were a lot of questions that I didn't know the answer to not being around those grasses, but I have read material about the care of them. The easiest part of the certification was the attesting of your course. I am attempting to become certified for my own gratification and to give my club the privilage of having a certified superintendent and sharing my knowledge with the membership.

    Terry Negen, Superintendent
    Marshall Golf Club
    MArshall, MN


    Ditto. Couldn't have said it better.



  6. Jeffrey Sexton
    Jeffrey Sexton avatar
    0 posts
    10/22/2015 4:10 PM
    Darrin,

    I completed my certification this year. I felt is was time consuming but not overly difficult. The exam can be tricky. Ask questions of other CGCS in your chapter. They can help with study materials. You probably won't get a huge raise, but it does put you in the top 23 percent in the industry. That should be gradifying enough. Please feel free to email me if you wish.



  7. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    10/22/2015 9:10 PM
    Not worth it...



  8. Trevor Monreal
    Trevor Monreal avatar
    5 posts
    10/23/2015 6:10 AM
    Clay Putnam, CGCS said: Not worth it...

    WHAT??
    WHAT??
    Clay...I'll have you know throughout my career I've had the pleasure of meeting/dealing with a few CGCS and they are the most, well, let me put it this way, they are...
    Yeah, you're right
    Not worth it...
    But hey, if I had nothing to do all winter I might consider it
    I might even read that magazine I pay $375 for



  9. Steve Nelson
    Steve Nelson avatar
    0 posts
    10/23/2015 7:10 AM
    Why not go for it Darren? It's challenging but nothing worthwhile is easy. The rules part of the exam was difficult, but it taught me that I needed to brush up on the rules. After all, it's a golf course and we are not just growing grass but rather we are preparing the grounds to play the game. Like Mel I am a muni guy so it hasn't exactly launched my career to the stratosphere, but I feel good about it and it provides some measure of confidence to my bosses who know nothing about golf. Filter out all the cynics and do what is right for you.



  10. Rick Tegtmeier
    Rick Tegtmeier avatar
    0 posts
    10/25/2015 7:10 AM
    Darin,
    Is CGCS going to make you extra money or help give you a leg up in the turf industry? 25 years ago I believed it would. Any more I see jobs listed as "CGCS preferred". I believe that many of those people hiring do not know what it means to be a CGCS or how you even got that designation.
    I have been CGCS for 30 years and it has taken a lot of money and effort to keep the designation. For me it was never to get more money in my job. I wanted to be the best that I could be for myself. I was fortunate to work for clubs that let me continue my education and attend National Conventions. I really enjoyed learning and trying to better myself. I do believe that it helped me do my job better because I did not sit on my backside, I attended education and tried to learn something every time I attended an educational event. Could I have attended the same education without being CGCS? Sure but being CGCS forced me to continue education and learn over the last 30 years.
    At 56 years old I just attained my Master Greenkeeper Certificate from BIGGA. Why did I do it? Only to prove to myself that I could attain it. It was much harder than I thought. It took a lot of effort and studying than I had imagined. It will not get me anymore money nor do I expect it to. It is just a level of satisfaction knowing that I could set a goal and achieve that goal. I did it for myself and for no one else. I had only one thing to prove – that I could still set and achieve a goal in the golf business that I love.
    So if you want to be a CGCS, I say do it for one reason, for yourself. There are many great golf course superintendents that are CGCS. There are many great golf course superintendents that are not CGCS. Everyone has their own reasons to be or not to be. It is an individual choice and commitment to do it or not do it. Best of luck in your decision.

    Rick



  11. Sean Hoolehan
    Sean Hoolehan avatar
    0 posts
    10/25/2015 9:10 AM
    Darrin,

    It's pretty simple, CGCS will make you more marketable! Of course marketing yourself is your most important job and the best way to accomplish this is having great maintenance on the course, good networking off the course, and being well versed in all aspects of golf course management. This is really the essence of Certification. Educating your employer about certification is your job but GCSAA has tools available to you to help you get it done.

    Keeping your certification will hardly cost you any more money than your GCSAA membership. There are a lot of online seminars right on this website that don't cost anything other than your annual dues.

    Certification is worth the effort and the sense of accomplishment is significant. Go for it!



  12. Christopher Thuer
    Christopher Thuer avatar
    101 posts
    10/25/2015 6:10 PM
    I went through the program mainly to add to my resume as I only received an associate in agronomy. I believe I got several interviews because of the CGCS that I otherwise would have not, including my current position of 14 seasons. Did I get those interviews or my current position because of the CGCS? Probably not, but I believe the designation did cause my resume to get a closer look than it otherwise would have.

    Chris Thuer, CGCS, Bear Slide Golf Club, Cicero, IN

  13. Larry Allan
    Larry Allan avatar
    0 posts
    10/26/2015 5:10 AM
    I was born that way
    Larry Allan CGCS
    Canadian Golf Course Superintendent



  14. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    10/26/2015 7:10 AM
    Larry Allan said: I was born that way
    Larry Allan CGCS
    Canadian Golf Course Superintendent


    Larry, what are the renewal requirements and costs to maintain your distinguished CGCS/doggone it I'm good enough status?



  15. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    10/26/2015 12:10 PM
    Clay Putnam, CGCS said:
    Larry Allan said: I was born that way
    Larry Allan CGCS
    Canadian Golf Course Superintendent


    Larry, what are the renewal requirements and costs to maintain your distinguished CGCS/doggone it I'm good enough status?



    Maintaining my CGCS hasn't cost me anymore than it would have. I would be taking the classes anyways to further myself over those that don't.



  16. Christopher Thuer
    Christopher Thuer avatar
    101 posts
    10/26/2015 12:10 PM
    I don't spend any extra funds to maintain CGCS. Most of my accumulated education credits I have to get anyway to maintain my state pesticide applicator license. I would be attending the GIS anyway. I don't take many fee classes and if I do it is because I feel the lesson would help me do my job better. Our chapter and local vendors have education events that are low cost or free that I go to as much as I can and would go to anyway.

    Chris Thuer, CGCS, Bear Slide Golf Club, Cicero, IN

  17. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    10/26/2015 2:10 PM
    Dadgummit Andy and Chris, I want to know the requirements to maintain the Canadian thingy classification.



  18. Lee Strutt
    Lee Strutt avatar
    0 posts
    10/26/2015 3:10 PM
    Darren,

    Everyone has the opportunity to learn. We can take a variety of different paths and explore an education program that suits our own personal needs. I feel the certification process can benefit you, but more importantly, it's the people that you get exposed to that you learn the most from. I have had, and continue to have, the opportunity to meet such a wide diverse individuals throughout this industry and from all over the world. Some of it has been through the certification and some hasn't. but i feel i am much wiser and richer in knowledge for it.

    The only person that will truly benefit the most from this process will be yourself. Enjoy the journey, whichever way you decide to go.

    Lee :D



  19. Ronald Kirkman
    Ronald Kirkman avatar
    42 posts
    10/26/2015 3:10 PM
    Greetings Darren;

    Anytime you can continue your education is a PLUS for you.

    I was Certified in February, 1972. There were thirteen of us that received recognition on stage in Cincinnati at the GCSAA Conference. It was a proud moment for me. One must remember that Certification was in its infancy at that time. To be truthful, I was against Certification at the onset.

    Time went on and in 1974 my third daughter Jen was born which was ten years later than when my second daughter was born. Without getting into detail about family illness along with the gas war we had back then, what I'm trying to say is that I REALLY regret not being RE-CERTIFIED. I did not have enough points and I did not wish to take the test again.

    Being Certified, I truly believe I had job opportunities that I turned down because it was not the right time to move. At this particular time we had a changing of the guard on the Board of Governor's at my golf club. The club was interested in a clubhouse manager. (We never had one). The year was late 1974. As it turns out we had a new treasurer who was retired from Northeastern University in Boston and he was a former Dean of Admissions. He knew I was a CGCS and he was very instrumental in convincing the Board that because of my continuing education that I should be given the job as G.M.

    I was the superintendent for 45 years at Needham Golf Club and the manager for 36 years. I retired from the golf course in 2007 and the clubhouse in 2010. AND, I do give credit to certification that I received the Manager's position.

    Capt. Kirk
    Retired Alien
    Needham Golf Club
    Needham,MA



  20. Stephen Ravenkamp
    Stephen Ravenkamp avatar
    1 posts
    10/28/2015 12:10 PM
    I was certified in 2008 and have served for several years on the Certification Committee. I firmly believe in the program. The GCSAA Certification Program is widely recognized as one of the most accepted certification programs in the world for its professionalism. That being said, becoming certified is a personal decision. There are very good superintendents who have not become certified and, while the designation MIGHT get your foot in the door, there is no guarantee. I became, and I think most people who have the designation became, certified as a personal challenge. I have always looked to challenge myself beyond my personal comfort levels; becoming certified was one more challenge. I learned a lot becoming certified; both about my profession and myself. The certification process is very good at identifying areas of weakness. It is not all agronomics, although you must certainly have a strong understanding of golf maintenance. The portfolio process examines leadership, management, communication skills, human resource management, organization, safety, business skills, equipment management, and other areas that are present in the well-rounded superintendent. I would be the last person to say that someone who choses not to become certified is "less than" someone who is certified. As I said, it is a personal decision, but one that you can wear with pride.
    Steve Ravenkamp, CGCS
    Apache Stronghold Golf Resort
    San Carlos, AZ



  21. Troy Lorenz
    Troy Lorenz avatar
    0 posts
    11/1/2015 7:11 PM
    For members that are speaking of becoming certified to either advance careers or to increase their salary, I pose a different question. How do you think obtaining certified status would compare to becoming a classified member of the PGA? Does it open doors to compete for director/GM positions? What is the best way to prove to ownership or to a club that it is possible for a superintendent to run an entire facility? I see more and more 18 hole facilities creating multiple positions for golf professionals, (director of golf, head professional, teaching professional, assistant professionals) meanwhile we are fighting keeping around assistants to promote so we aren't replacing them when they leave the business in a few short years.

    I have kicked around the idea on getting started working towards becoming certified, for me this would be solely to achieve my own personal career goals. I would not receive any increase in pay/salary. For the people that have been forced to wear so many "hats" during these down times, it is difficult to even attend local chapter meetings. In order to spend as much time with family it is not always in ones best interest to add to our already busy schedules. So, I ask.....what is the best thing that we can do not only to help ourselves but to move our industry in a positive direction?



  22. Sean Hoolehan
    Sean Hoolehan avatar
    0 posts
    11/2/2015 10:11 AM
    Troy,

    The PGA does allow you to be a Class A member as a superintendent but you still have to go through their PGM program. The economic down turn was equally hard on the PGA as GCSAA, but PGA membership will always have a bit of appeal/allure that being a superintendent lacks. They are quite different disciplines.

    As a golf course superintendent it would be faster and open more doors to being a GM (if that's what you desire) if you obtain CGCS and a MBA.



  23. Billy Huskins
    Billy Huskins avatar
    0 posts
    11/16/2015 7:11 PM
    If you want to improve your professional development I would say go through the process. If you think the designation will increase your salary or open new doors you my want to reconsider. My personal opinion is in this current market, employers still do not fully understand what CGCS embodies. And in most cases, employers may feel that a CGCS applicant may require more income and could adversely affect getting an interview. At the end of the day this is you furthering your education.



  24. Morozowsky Martin
    Morozowsky Martin avatar
    11/19/2015 11:11 PM
    I have thought about this process too, but I choose a different route MBA, at this point I think I can go head to head with any certified superintendent or a salad chopper GM. My question to you all, if you had to hire a certified superintendent or an MBA who would you bring to the table if they have been both working in golf? Certification does not help you out when you are on the outside circle of the Superintendents world, it does not carry any transferable real title to the outside world. Really it is not distinguish title within any organization only with our own.

    Just my two cents!

    I think that this industry needs to promote more than meritocracy.



  25. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    11/20/2015 6:11 AM
    Not to beat a dead horse, but I work for a real estate developer that wants nothing to do with golf other than to sell golf course views. When I arrived, nobody here had any clue as to what a Certified Golf Course Superintendent even was. As it was a personal goal of mine, I educated my boss and owner on the importance of going through the program. They instantly realized the value of the continuing education and the designation that sets us apart from our competition. They gladly paid the fees and now use it as a promotional tool to prospective home buyers. To them, this was an easy sell. And all it took was some dialogue and communication on my part to show them this. I received a nice bonus for completing the program (in which I negotiated in the beginning) and they have stated that if I ever leave, they would only rehire a CGCS. This is a great example of how someone can be clueless and have their belief totally changed the other direction. It is what you make of it.



  26. Sean Hoolehan
    Sean Hoolehan avatar
    0 posts
    11/20/2015 9:11 AM
    Andy Jorgensen said: Not to beat a dead horse, but I work for a real estate developer that wants nothing to do with golf other than to sell golf course views. When I arrived, nobody here had any clue as to what a Certified Golf Course Superintendent even was. As it was a personal goal of mine, I educated my boss and owner on the importance of going through the program. They instantly realized the value of the continuing education and the designation that sets us apart from our competition. They gladly paid the fees and now use it as a promotional tool to prospective home buyers. To them, this was an easy sell. And all it took was some dialogue and communication on my part to show them this. I received a nice bonus for completing the program (in which I negotiated in the beginning) and they have stated that if I ever leave, they would only rehire a CGCS. This is a great example of how someone can be clueless and have their belief totally changed the other direction. It is what you make of it.



    [size=150">Andy, You have smart owners![/size">



  27. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    11/20/2015 12:11 PM
    Martin Morozowsky said: I have thought about this process too, but I choose a different route MBA, at this point I think I can go head to head with any certified superintendent or a salad chopper GM. My question to you all, if you had to hire a certified superintendent or an MBA who would you bring to the table if they have been both working in golf? Certification does not help you out when you are on the outside circle of the Superintendents world, it does not carry any transferable real title to the outside world. Really it is not distinguish title within any organization only with our own.

    Just my two cents!

    I think that this industry needs to promote more than meritocracy.


    Marty,

    Congrats on gaining your MBA. Very impressive. I mentioned earlier that the CGCS was not worth it. I made that statement based on value not on self achievement. I certainly endorse continuing ed and if gaining the acronym makes you feel good then by all means go for it. Specific to CGCS, the monetary gain does not match the outlay to achieve and maintain the end. Most owners do not recognize CGCS vs pick a class. Most owners have a budget in mind when hiring a superintendent. If that budget gets him/her a CGCS then all the better but in the end most, not all, owners do not go into the hiring process with CGCS in mind. However, all owners are fully aware of a MBA. To answer you question, I would immediately gravitate to a resume with a MBA and to that point I hired a MBA at one time in my career.



  28. Darren Graf
    Darren Graf avatar
    0 posts
    12/11/2015 10:12 AM
    Thank you for all the replies at this point I am starting the certification process. As many of you said do it for yourself and that is the advise I have taken.
    Than you all



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