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Affordable Care Act?

29 posts
  1. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    10/28/2013 3:10 PM
    Is it affordable and will it ever work? I have my doubts! With millions around the country getting dumped from their plans, many more finding out the cost is 3 to 5 times higher with a higher deductible and less coverage, how is this going to play out. If you can't even get a web site to work right , how are you going to get the doctors and clinics properly reimbursed in a timely manner? Doctors are being dropped from many plans resulting in a doctor shortage in many areas. This isn't looking very promising so far. So much for keeping your own doctors and your own plan. Will people be fired for gross incompetence since this program has been so ill prepared to roll out? I am also just curious if you can now believe that the President didn't know about Fast and Furious, didn't know about the IRS scandal, didn't seem to know about Benghazi, didn't know the Obama care registration was going to be a disaster and now didn't know about his NSA snooping on Merkal and others, is he that in the dark or just the most incompetent president in many a year?



  2. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/28/2013 3:10 PM
    Sandy Clark, CGCS said: Is it affordable and will it ever work? I have my doubts! With millions around the country getting dumped from their plans, many more finding out the cost is 3 to 5 times higher with a higher deductible and less coverage, how is this going to play out. If you can't even get a web site to work right , how are you going to get the doctors and clinics properly reimbursed in a timely manner? Doctors are being dropped from many plans resulting in a doctor shortage in many areas. This isn't looking very promising so far. So much for keeping your own doctors and your own plan. Will people be fired for gross incompetence since this program has been so ill prepared to roll out? I am also just curious if you can now believe that the President didn't know about Fast and Furious, didn't know about the IRS scandal, didn't seem to know about Benghazi, didn't know the Obama care registration was going to be a disaster and now didn't know about his NSA snooping on Merkal and others, is he that in the dark or just the most incompetent president in many a year?


    Sandy,

    I can't answer all of your questions, but from what I know, many that are seeing their premiums go up or have been getting dropped, it is because the plans they had did not include the preventive care that the ACA is calling for. The other issue it seems to be affecting the younger people who were not paying much to begin.

    As for doctors getting dropped from plans, is that not an issue between the doctors and the insurance companies? As I understand the insurance that people will be buying are on exchanges from private insurance companies that bid to be on the government's exchanges. The government itself isn't running anything insurance wise as to my understanding with the exception of Medicaid and Medicare, and that is through the states.

    The government does have to take the hit on the website, but the 34 states that did not participate should take some blame as well. As I understand it, the states that set up their own exchanges have been faring better. I also had heard that when Medicare part D had its rollout it didn't fare much better. That should not be an excuse, but it is what it is, in my opinion.

    I have to say while a big supporter of the ACA, because of the many benefits that we would see due to our medical issues as a family; our employer has been very proactive, adopting many of the ACA requirements early. We also have not seen an increase in our premiums for the past year, and I'm thinking it will be a full 18 months of no raise, we will be notified again probably in April if our premiums will rise next June/July. We still pay $424 per month to have my wife and son on the plan, while the $466 that covers me is 100% paid for by my employer. Basically our plan cost $890 per month. Yet I have seen people complaining about their premiums rising from $198 to $207 per month, if only we had to pay that, (of course not knowing what their plan consist of, it would be like apples and oranges).

    I am not going to throw the baby out with the bath water, if there are legitimate concerns then lets debate them and fix the issue, I don't know why the republicans don't just bring that to the table instead of saying let's get rid of it than we fix it. Or they can provide their plan for us to compare, if we all think it is better, and then I'm sure there is some way to put it into place before we pull the ACA. I'm don't trust the republicans enough to repeal ACA and then they don't put their plan into place either.

    As for one of your other issues, haven't we been spying on all those other countries back even in the 80's during the cold war? The president should just man up and tell them all that. (Show them the clip from Jon Stewart last week).

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  3. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    10/28/2013 6:10 PM
    http://marketplace.cms.gov/getofficialresources/publications-and-articles/publications-and-articles.html

    All the information and forms you need to apply as a single or family are at this website. There are live people at the website (https://www.healthcare.gov/) standing by to help. When I called the wait period was one second. The application is easy and the directions are very straightforward. I am just going to fill mine out and snail mail it in.



  4. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    10/28/2013 7:10 PM



  5. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
  6. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    10/28/2013 8:10 PM
    Clay Putnam, CGCS said: When do I get my raise?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUd-slJc-GY


    Gosh Dang telepromters!!!!!!!!!!



  7. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    10/28/2013 8:10 PM
    This being the very first time the government can take away something you bought in good faith (insurance policy), in a legal agreement between you and the insurance company, agreeing to buy only what you wanted and nothing more, because the government knows better than you what to do with your money. You're too stupid to know that you coulda' gotten a bettter deal.

    Your SUVs and trucks are next.

    "Come here, stupid. Let me show you this all-electric 2-door. If you have a boat and trailer, you can continue using it. It will pull your camper trailer, too."



  8. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/29/2013 7:10 AM
    Peter Bowman, CGCS said: This being the very first time the government can take away something you bought in good faith (insurance policy), in a legal agreement between you and the insurance company, agreeing to buy only what you wanted and nothing more, because the government knows better than you what to do with your money. You're too stupid to know that you coulda' gotten a bettter deal.

    Your SUVs and trucks are next.

    "Come here, stupid. Let me show you this all-electric 2-door. If you have a boat and trailer, you can continue using it. It will pull your camper trailer, too."


    Pete,

    In one regard you are correct and I want to agree with your premise, but as I hear from "experts" (a dubious term for some of them), most of those policies "aren't worth the paper they are printed on". So the government have proposed guidelines that the policies should contain, I'm sure in the debates and policy writing they came up with some good reasons (I'm sure debatable depending on what lobbyist and constituents responded on, and maybe the lawmakers own history) for making the policies contain what was requested. If this is such a big issue, why don't the republicans reintroduce these types of policies, instead of trying to do away with the ACA all together? Let us fix the issues.

    As for the SUV and truck issue, that has already been done by mandated fuel mileage requirements. While I'm not so much in favor of the government dictating, the auto industry should have voluntary improved mileage on their own just to be more completive in the market place, although it does help the country "stop relying on foreign oil" as politicians from both sides of the aisle keep shouting at election time.

    Of course those are just my opinions, but rather then continue to bash something, I want to see solutions.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  9. Rodney Crow
    Rodney Crow avatar
    0 posts
    10/29/2013 8:10 AM
    Melvin,

    If the govt really wanted to improve gas mileage and clean up our environment, they would have mandated EVERY vehicle be running on natural gas by now. The USA has hundreds of years worth of supply, and it produces basically ZERO emissions......but as with everything else in our government, money talks. The big oil companies are the big campaign contributors, so heaven forbid we try to actually do something to reduce our dependence on their oil. Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread!



  10. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    10/29/2013 9:10 AM
    Mel,

    Options have been provided by republicans. However, those options do not fall in line with obama's so our president dismisses them then suggests the republicans offer nothing but complaints. Obama suggests that he will listen and negotiate with the republicans but he has failed to live up to those promises much the same way he is now delivering a bag of failed goods known as obamacare.



  11. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    10/29/2013 9:10 AM
    A few quick things! Pete already covered my first comment about the government knowing best. I am sorry, the President bald faced lied about you staying on your plan. He knew in 2009 or 2010 that millions would have their plans deemed not up to some government idiots standard. Mel, if the person with the policy was happy they should have been left alone. It is not the role of government to dictate what you want to buy. It is now estimated that multiple millions of people will be dropped and forced into something that will cost more with 50% of those not qualifying for the government rebate or whatever it is called. Medicare patients are loosing doctors they have had for years. It is true it is coming from the insurance companies but it is happening due to the strict rules written into the Affordable care Act. No explanation is being provided to patients or doctors as to why they are being dropped. For those of us that have plans through our employers, which is huge number, it is being predicted that our costs may be going up in the neighborhood of 50%. I have open enrollment in March. If mine goes up too much, my wife an I will probably switch to Medicare if we can keep our same doctors. I have dermatologists, orthopedic doctors, opthamologists and primary care doctors that my wife and I have used for years. I will probably be forced to pay up to keep them if they are not listed under Medicare. Also, has anyone on the forum considered the fact that you have NO EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY on the personal information you submit when you apply for Affordable Care Act. Are you going to trust the government or a navigator from Acorn to keep your financial or health information private so it can't be used against you. In the Terms and Conditions on a page you don't even see, it states that your information can be transferred to other agencies. That is the way the Communists and dictators of the world controlled their people. Are you supporters ok with your private information being shared? I really doubt it. I also doubt many of you had a clue that this could possibly happen. Just watch the identity theft that will result from this. Bogus web sites are already established and guess what, they actually work!



  12. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/29/2013 11:10 AM
    Sandy Clark, CGCS said: A few quick things! Pete already covered my first comment about the government knowing best. I am sorry, the President bald faced lied about you staying on your plan. He knew in 2009 or 2010 that millions would have their plans deemed not up to some government idiots standard. Mel, if the person with the policy was happy they should have been left alone. It is not the role of government to dictate what you want to buy. It is now estimated that multiple millions of people will be dropped and forced into something that will cost more with 50% of those not qualifying for the government rebate or whatever it is called. Medicare patients are loosing doctors they have had for years. It is true it is coming from the insurance companies but it is happening due to the strict rules written into the Affordable care Act. No explanation is being provided to patients or doctors as to why they are being dropped. For those of us that have plans through our employers, which is huge number, it is being predicted that our costs may be going up in the neighborhood of 50%. I have open enrollment in March. If mine goes up too much, my wife an I will probably switch to Medicare if we can keep our same doctors. I have dermatologists, orthopedic doctors, opthamologists and primary care doctors that my wife and I have used for years. I will probably be forced to pay up to keep them if they are not listed under Medicare. Also, has anyone on the forum considered the fact that you have NO EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY on the personal information you submit when you apply for Affordable Care Act. Are you going to trust the government or a navigator from Acorn to keep your financial or health information private so it can't be used against you. In the Terms and Conditions on a page you don't even see, it states that your information can be transferred to other agencies. That is the way the Communists and dictators of the world controlled their people. Are you supporters ok with your private information being shared? I really doubt it. I also doubt many of you had a clue that this could possibly happen. Just watch the identity theft that will result from this. Bogus web sites are already established and guess what, they actually work!


    Sandy, as of right now, you do not have to submit that information on the website, it doesn't need to know your medical history just your age, where you live and maybe if you smoke, (no different the Ky. with their Blue Cross for years, I had seen that when I was investigating jobs there, if you lived in coal country premiums were higher). Your medical history should have no bearing on cost since there is no pre-existing condition issue.

    As for my private information being shared, I myself don't have an issue, heck I'm sure AT&T knows where I go, Wal-Mart knows what I buy, the internet knows what I search for, all for business reasons of course, (that's why I get pop ups of golf equipment and Mustangs).

    As I have said before, our employer supplied health insurance will not have a premium increase for at least 18 months. The 7 years prior to that, (which goes back into President Bush's years in the White House) we were getting increases of 5% per year. Of course I know our market is probably different than yours, and our plan probably is as well.

    I would tend to agree at some point that if someone had a policy that didn't meet the ACA requirements let them keep that policy; I would like to hear more debate on why the standards were raised. Probably shows better results and lower costs in the long run when people use the preventative care options in the ACA plans, but like I said, I'm willing to hear the debate.

    Can you give me some examples of plans the Republicans put forth? I know our one Senator as only said about Tort reforms and the selling of plans across state lines. Let them put up those improvements for debate. But isn't most of the ACA the same plan Republicans and the Heritage Foundation had proposed many years before President Obama was elected?

    I am not into fear or scare tactics, let's put the facts on the table and fix the issues. If some of my examples are wrong please provide the correct information, well from credible sources anyway, (if there are any left).

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  13. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    10/29/2013 11:10 AM
    Pretty hard to do when Harry won't let anything see the light of day. If you remember, the Affordable Dare Act was passed by Harry manipulating some old arcane rule. He virtually deemed it passed. He did that to avoid Scott Brown having an opportunity to vote. It was done with a 51% majority at midnight on Christmas Eve without a single republican in the house or senate voting in favor. If he was willing to pull a stunt like that, do you think he wouldn't do everything to prevent the republican voice from being heard? The willing press was certainly not investigating the merits of the plan because they were too busy cheer leading for Obama and everything and everything he stood for. Several alternate plans were suggested including by doctors and all were quickly shut down.



  14. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/29/2013 12:10 PM
    Sandy Clark, CGCS"]Pretty hard to do when Harry won't let anything see the light of day. If you remember, the Affordable Dare Act was passed by Harry manipulating some old arcane rule. He virtually deemed it passed. He did that to avoid Scott Brown having an opportunity to vote. It was done with a 51% majority at midnight on Christmas Eve without a single republican in the house or senate voting in favor. If he was willing to pull a stunt like that, do you think he wouldn't do everything to prevent the republican voice from being heard? The willing press was certainly not investigating the merits of the plan because they were too busy cheer leading for Obama and everything and everything he stood for. Several alternate plans were suggested including by doctors and all were quickly shut down.[/quote]

    Sounds similar to the current issue in the Senate, where we need 60 votes to pass anything, brought to you by Republicans. The house is an even bigger mess thanks to gerrymandered district lines.

    What were these plans and who shut them down? I wonder what changes some of the doctors would have made, better payments to them? Were they credible? Do you have any examples of these plans that were proposed and evidence on who shut them down? What made them better than the current plan? I know my congressman loves the part about no pre-existing conditions and some of the other popular items in the plan, so why don't he and his fellow Republicans offer the fix the bad things in the ACA and keep the good ones? It is probably because to keep the popular items requires the unpopular items for it to work. Would being able to keep the old plans make the whole ACA workable? No one had answered that question yet, at least on this forum.

    Not to say the Democrates are blameless, they could be doing a much better job as well.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  15. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    10/29/2013 2:10 PM
    Mel, I don't remember the details of who proposed what but I do remember the tort reform, the selling insurance over state lines, tax credits for companies providing plans for employees, health savings plans and a number of other workable things that could have been done immediately. i want your son to have coverage so yes to preexisting conditions. I have very little problem with covering our kids until 25. I do have a problem with dismantling a system that could have been improved and ruining millions of citizens existing insurance so that 45 million that were not covered could have insurance. Like usual, we throw out the entire system to take care of a few. The country would have been much better off if we had just focused on methods of providing opportunity for those not covered rather than wrecking everyone that had coverage. 12% had a problem being uninsured and many of those chose to be. Actually, this thing was designed to fail with the intent of having single payer national government run health care. Then we can wait like the rest of the countries that have it and take 45 days to get an appointment and a year to see a specialist. I just wonder how the nation will react when they admit that Obamacare has failed and now we need to go to single payer. If the government screwed up this thing to the point of failure, will anyone actually trust them to fix it their way again? I hope we are not that ignorant or gullible as a nation.



  16. Trevor Monreal
    Trevor Monreal avatar
    5 posts
    10/29/2013 3:10 PM
    Can we PLEASE shut down the government again?
    I'm tired of seeing all the negative headlines about the ACA.
    I don't feel better seeing this thing come to fruition.
    Even worse is the media bringing it all out as if it's "Breaking News".
    Too bad the media didn't have the fortitude to do some research and ask the tough questions before we got this far into this mess...



  17. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    10/29/2013 6:10 PM
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said:
    Sandy Clark, CGCS said: Pretty hard to do when Harry won't let anything see the light of day. If you remember, the Affordable Dare Act was passed by Harry manipulating some old arcane rule. He virtually deemed it passed. He did that to avoid Scott Brown having an opportunity to vote. It was done with a 51% majority at midnight on Christmas Eve without a single republican in the house or senate voting in favor. If he was willing to pull a stunt like that, do you think he wouldn't do everything to prevent the republican voice from being heard? The willing press was certainly not investigating the merits of the plan because they were too busy cheer leading for Obama and everything and everything he stood for. Several alternate plans were suggested including by doctors and all were quickly shut down.[/quote]

    Sounds similar to the current issue in the Senate, where we need 60 votes to pass anything, brought to you by Republicans. The house is an even bigger mess thanks to gerrymandered district lines.

    What were these plans and who shut them down? I wonder what changes some of the doctors would have made, better payments to them? Were they credible? Do you have any examples of these plans that were proposed and evidence on who shut them down? What made them better than the current plan? I know my congressman loves the part about no pre-existing conditions and some of the other popular items in the plan, so why don't he and his fellow Republicans offer the fix the bad things in the ACA and keep the good ones? It is probably because to keep the popular items requires the unpopular items for it to work. Would being able to keep the old plans make the whole ACA workable? No one had answered that question yet, at least on this forum.

    Not to say the Democrates are blameless, they could be doing a much better job as well.

    Mel


    Mel,

    Example of shutdown healthcare plans, here: http://news.yahoo.com/why-individuals-losing-health-plans-under-obamacare-074800336.html

    Examples of republican options, here: http://www.newsmax.com/US/scalise-repub ... /id/526541

    and here, http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08 ... ernatives/

    All the above are easy to find but are not covered on the tube because Obama simply will not consider these options. As such these options do not see the light of day in the television news. The republicans have never had a seat at the table when the current healthcare bill (Obamacare) was conceived, considered, and decided upon. As a matter of fact, I believe the republicans were shut out of the building when Obamacare was in it planing and decision stages. Perhaps someone can clarify this.

    Our president is simply lying when he says that he will consider the optioninal plans. How many times have you seen Obama say he will negotiate and consider any option? He says it continuously. Yet he has never considered the options let alone negotiated them. So when you say that you want the options debated, send that message to the White House.



  18. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    10/29/2013 9:10 PM
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said:

    ........ I would like to hear more debate......... but like I said, I'm willing to hear the debate.

    Mel


    I think they're supposed to debate things before a law is passed, no?



  19. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/29/2013 10:10 PM
    Peter Bowman, CGCS said:
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said: ........ I would like to hear more debate......... but like I said, I'm willing to hear the debate. Mel
    I think they're supposed to debate things before a law is passed, no?


    Pete, yes and I'm sure there was debate on the floor, if just for the legislatures to hear themselve talk.

    But now that it is law, and if we are finding parts that are not working, lets debate how we can make those changes to make it better.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  20. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/29/2013 10:10 PM
    Clay Putnam, CGCS said:
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said:
    Sandy Clark, CGCS said: Pretty hard to do when Harry won't let anything see the light of day. If you remember, the Affordable Dare Act was passed by Harry manipulating some old arcane rule. He virtually deemed it passed. He did that to avoid Scott Brown having an opportunity to vote. It was done with a 51% majority at midnight on Christmas Eve without a single republican in the house or senate voting in favor. If he was willing to pull a stunt like that, do you think he wouldn't do everything to prevent the republican voice from being heard? The willing press was certainly not investigating the merits of the plan because they were too busy cheer leading for Obama and everything and everything he stood for. Several alternate plans were suggested including by doctors and all were quickly shut down.[/quote]

    Sounds similar to the current issue in the Senate, where we need 60 votes to pass anything, brought to you by Republicans. The house is an even bigger mess thanks to gerrymandered district lines.

    What were these plans and who shut them down? I wonder what changes some of the doctors would have made, better payments to them? Were they credible? Do you have any examples of these plans that were proposed and evidence on who shut them down? What made them better than the current plan? I know my congressman loves the part about no pre-existing conditions and some of the other popular items in the plan, so why don't he and his fellow Republicans offer the fix the bad things in the ACA and keep the good ones? It is probably because to keep the popular items requires the unpopular items for it to work. Would being able to keep the old plans make the whole ACA workable? No one had answered that question yet, at least on this forum.

    Not to say the Democrates are blameless, they could be doing a much better job as well.

    Mel


    Mel,

    Example of shutdown healthcare plans, here: http://news.yahoo.com/why-individuals-losing-health-plans-under-obamacare-074800336.html

    Examples of republican options, here: http://www.newsmax.com/US/scalise-repub ... /id/526541

    and here, http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08 ... ernatives/

    All the above are easy to find but are not covered on the tube because Obama simply will not consider these options. As such these options do not see the light of day in the television news. The republicans have never had a seat at the table when the current healthcare bill (Obamacare) was conceived, considered, and decided upon. As a matter of fact, I believe the republicans were shut out of the building when Obamacare was in it planing and decision stages. Perhaps someone can clarify this.

    Our president is simply lying when he says that he will consider the optioninal plans. How many times have you seen Obama say he will negotiate and consider any option? He says it continuously. Yet he has never considered the options let alone negotiated them. So when you say that you want the options debated, send that message to the White House.


    Clay thanks for the links,

    the first one seems to have conflicting opinions on what is better the ACA or some other options. Some opinions feel the ACA is better. I don't remember reading much of the republican's plans in that link. It does talk about why people are getting dropped from their current insurance, same as what I have been saying. As I have said, that is a discussion to have; the upgraded plans in theory will save money in the long run with its preventive care. But let's put the numbers out there in black and white for the discussion. If preventive care will decrease cost in the long run lets show it. I thought this one quote in that article does show basically what I have been saying.

    For the last few weeks, I have seen a vast outpouring of conservative sympathy for young, healthy, prosperous people whose health plan premiums are going up.... But what about the tens of millions of Americans who currently lack health insurance and are about to get access to available, affordable coverage? Where is the conservative sympathy for people who would be worse off if the law doesn't go forward? Nowhere. Because for all the needless complexity of liberals' approach to improving health insurance and helping the sick, conservatives don't have one at all.

    In the second link, it is claimed that the ACA is a government run program, which is not true, unless it is their claim of the mandates. I can agree with them on the issue of 50 employee and 30 hour week as requirements for providing health care for employees of small business, although from most economic experts that is not really is happening. I agree with their take on creating competition, but I believe the health exchanges was trying to create the competition, yet it seems the insurance companies on either the exchanges and before the ACA were avoiding competition. Would selling across state lines create that competition? Can health care be set up similar to car and home insurance? I know our policies are based in other states. Here was the quote I thought was interesting.

    The study group's plan would allow consumers to buy healthcare across state lines and to take a healthcare deduction on their taxes, while small businesses would be able to purchase healthcare through associations and enjoy the buying power of a large corporation.

    I can agree with the one suggestion that was made in that article, I do know I can take a tax deduction already on the premiums I pay for my family, (of course it also takes our other health care cost added to it to reach the 7% of our income to deduct it). I will say the second part was an issue in our area, a bunch of small business, (each under the 50 employee threshold) in SW MO had got together to create a buying alliance for health insurance for their employees, under the ACA, this was not allowable. I would love to see that changed.

    Here is what I got out of the Fox news link. The part about your boss controlling your health care is true in my opinion, but this is what the health exchanges are changing, allowing you to choose the policy that fits your needs, and also allows flexibility, I don't have to choose a job because of the insurance. I can get my own insurance. Believe me, that is why I took my current position. It is true what is says about the current ACA, but I disagree when they say that government run health care leads to rationing. It isn't that way with Medicare, I know, I went through that with my mom. And it isn't that way with the ACA, it isn't government run, it is private insurance offered through an exchange, I see it as no different then what I currently have. Heck rationing was happening before the ACA in my opinion when people were getting dropped due to pre-existing conditions, lifetime maximums, and getting dropped when they become sick. Below is a quote from that article.

    "If your boss controls your health care spending, your boss gets to choose your insurance. If the government gets to control your health care spending, then they get to ration care," he said. "If you control your own money, then you get more choice and more control over your health care dollars."
    Price emphasizes that his and other alternatives would let consumers choose what kind of insurance they want, while ObamaCare requires consumers to buy insurance and sets guidelines for what will be offered on the market.
    "We ought to be moving in the direction of patient-centered health care," Price said. "Which means patients and families and doctors making medical decisions, not Washington, D.C."


    Just a reminder, for the most part ACA as many call Obamacare really ought to be called Heritage care, since it comes from that what republicans had as I understand it had been proposing since Nixon.

    Thanks Sandy for the concern, we appreciate it.

    Thanks,

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  21. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    10/29/2013 10:10 PM
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said:
    Peter Bowman, CGCS said:
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said: ........ I would like to hear more debate......... but like I said, I'm willing to hear the debate. Mel
    I think they're supposed to debate things before a law is passed, no?


    Pete, yes and I'm sure there was debate on the floor, if just for the legislatures to hear themselve talk.

    But now that it is law, and if we are finding parts that are not working, lets debate how we can make those changes to make it better.

    Mel


    Let's give 'em another chance. Mel, you make it far too easy on the stupid people we elect.



  22. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    10/30/2013 4:10 AM
    Mel,

    Obamacare is a government run program. The insurance companies are providing the product but the government dictates what the product is, how it is made, how it is administered, who must buy it, when it is to be purchased, how much one must pay for it, you are fined if you do not purchase it,it is policed by the IRS, it is defined as a tax by the Supreme Court, and on and on.

    2,000,000 people just received insurance cancellation notices because the government said so. Now, Mel, if you believe obamacare is not government run then I have some oceanfront property in Indiana that I would love to sell you.



  23. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/30/2013 7:10 AM
    Clay Putnam, CGCS said: Mel,

    Obamacare is a government run program. The insurance companies are providing the product but the government dictates what the product is, how it is made, how it is administered, who must buy it, when it is to be purchased, how much one must pay for it, you are fined if you do not purchase it,it is policed by the IRS, it is defined as a tax by the Supreme Court, and on and on.

    2,000,000 people just received insurance cancellation notices because the government said so. Now, Mel, if you believe obamacare is not government run then I have some oceanfront property in Indiana that I would love to sell you.


    No Clay lake front property maybe.

    I did say in my last post, yes the government dictates the terms; I believe it is similar to how states dictate auto policies. It's to protect the consumers. The insurance companies weren't protecting consumers, they were protecting their bottom lines, and while I don't begrudge someone from making a profit, (my 401's probably liked it), their greed in my opinion was/is hurting the overall economy, and health care became such a big part of the economy long before the ACA was put into place.

    I don't like the fact that 2 million people are getting cancelation notices, but how many people were cancelled when they got sick or denied health insurance because of a pre-existing condition? What about them? Nobody stood up to the insurance companies before the ACA. Is there a better answer? You tell me. What was happening before the ACA wasn't sustainable either.

    We all have certain things we look to the government for when the private sector does not provide the solutions or takes advantage of us. This is something that affects me and I am glad it came along, are there issues? Sure, but as I have said, let's fix them.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  24. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    10/30/2013 9:10 AM
    Mel, you and Ican go out and buy Allstate, Farmers, Triple A, Geico, Nationwide, Esurance, the company Flo advertises for etc. We can get whatever we want from basic coverage up to very comprehensive coverage. In this case the government only requires you have auto insurance, the rest is dictated by the free market. Even then, many people still drive without insurance. You have tons of pricing and coverage options based on your need. The Affordable Care Act offers limited numbers of options with the only pricing choices being more or a hell of a lot more. Auto insurance also doesn't eliminate doctors though it may limit which repair shop you can use so that it isn't done in someones backyard. Even as Sebellius testify's today, the site is down again. Do you honestly think that this government controlled monstrosity will work? If you can't even get the registration correct, how do you expect it to work for patients and doctors with the thousands of pages of rules and the reams of reports that will be required. The simple fact is just as many if not more will be uninsured, everyone other than the poor will find policies jumping by large percentages, doctors are being dropped, quitting and refusing to participate. How will this improve health care for 350+ million Americans when the government can't even get the basics right. I for one am not interested in all of my financial and medical information being shared by all government agencies while having my health care opportunities diminish. Nancy said we would have to pass it to know what is in it. Well, people are learning and they are not happy!



  25. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/30/2013 1:10 PM
    Sandy Clark, CGCS said: Mel, you and Ican go out and buy Allstate, Farmers, Triple A, Geico, Nationwide, Esurance, the company Flo advertises for etc. We can get whatever we want from basic coverage up to very comprehensive coverage. In this case the government only requires you have auto insurance, the rest is dictated by the free market. Even then, many people still drive without insurance. You have tons of pricing and coverage options based on your need. The Affordable Care Act offers limited numbers of options with the only pricing choices being more or a hell of a lot more. Auto insurance also doesn't eliminate doctors though it may limit which repair shop you can use so that it isn't done in someones backyard. Even as Sebellius testify's today, the site is down again. Do you honestly think that this government controlled monstrosity will work? If you can't even get the registration correct, how do you expect it to work for patients and doctors with the thousands of pages of rules and the reams of reports that will be required. The simple fact is just as many if not more will be uninsured, everyone other than the poor will find policies jumping by large percentages, doctors are being dropped, quitting and refusing to participate. How will this improve health care for 350+ million Americans when the government can't even get the basics right. I for one am not interested in all of my financial and medical information being shared by all government agencies while having my health care opportunities diminish. Nancy said we would have to pass it to know what is in it. Well, people are learning and they are not happy!


    Sandy, the one thing I can offer, Medicare and Medicaid are both government programs that have been working for how long? (I know that could be better as well, but I know many in the Tea Party said in their town hall meetings for the government to keep their hands off, so they must be doing a good enough job that people don't realize it is government run), I believe I also said before, that I heard Medicare Part D, the prescription plan with the big doughnut hole in it had a tough roll out under President Bush.

    I don't think your information is going to be more widespread than it already is, or will be when you start taking Medicare, but I know that is a popular talking point from the right, where can I find a link to that? (I know Google)

    Yes people drive without or with minimum auto insurance policies, and when they have an accident who pays? Same as health care.

    I can't defend Congresswomen Pelosi, and your friends out there in California shouldn't have re-elected her along with many others on both sides of the aisle, but I have a bigger congressional fish to fry in my district, (you might have heard about him, won on the slogan of being "Fed Up", now he is doing the feeding of himself in Washington DC, and Vegas regularly going out on $1,000 dinners while he tries to cut the SNAP program), so I shouldn't be telling you who to vote for.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  26. Steve Nelson
    Steve Nelson avatar
    0 posts
    10/30/2013 1:10 PM
    "Keep Gov't away from my healthcare!" ... "and keep your hands off my medicare!" ACA is failing before it even gets going. Time to do the obvious and provide medicare (a gov't program that works) to everyone. Of course to afford it, we might have to avoid butting in to every foreign military adventure that pops up. Just think how pro-business that would be (except for the health insurance industry, of course)



  27. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    10/30/2013 6:10 PM
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said:
    Clay Putnam, CGCS said: Mel,

    Obamacare is a government run program. The insurance companies are providing the product but the government dictates what the product is, how it is made, how it is administered, who must buy it, when it is to be purchased, how much one must pay for it, you are fined if you do not purchase it,it is policed by the IRS, it is defined as a tax by the Supreme Court, and on and on.

    2,000,000 people just received insurance cancellation notices because the government said so. Now, Mel, if you believe obamacare is not government run then I have some oceanfront property in Indiana that I would love to sell you.


    No Clay lake front property maybe.

    I did say in my last post, yes the government dictates the terms; I believe it is similar to how states dictate auto policies. It's to protect the consumers. The insurance companies weren't protecting consumers, they were protecting their bottom lines, and while I don't begrudge someone from making a profit, (my 401's probably liked it), their greed in my opinion was/is hurting the overall economy, and health care became such a big part of the economy long before the ACA was put into place.

    I don't like the fact that 2 million people are getting cancelation notices, but how many people were cancelled when they got sick or denied health insurance because of a pre-existing condition? What about them? Nobody stood up to the insurance companies before the ACA. Is there a better answer? You tell me. What was happening before the ACA wasn't sustainable either.

    We all have certain things we look to the government for when the private sector does not provide the solutions or takes advantage of us. This is something that affects me and I am glad it came along, are there issues? Sure, but as I have said, let's fix them.

    Mel


    Auto insurance and Obamacare have one thing in common. The word "insurance". That is where the similarities end. Auto insurance is not required if you don't drive. Well, I suppose Obamacare is not required if you don't live, but I digress. Sandy made great points. To add, the terms of the auto insurance is not dictated by the government. The cost of the insurance is not dictated by the government. There are no subsidies. You can shop substantially more providers than you can Obamacare. You can a la carte your auto insurance. You are not penalized if you do not have auto insurance. The IRS will not garnish your wages or your tax returns if you do not have auto insurance. The list goes on and on.

    Denied claimants due to preexisting conditions, etc is covered within the republicans plan. Maybe you should jump to the other side, Mel. Its looking as if the water is much warmer over there.

    And most definitely ocean front property, but only for those who believe Obamacare is not a government run program. I have millions of acres to sell all of you. Cheap too.



  28. Robert Crockett
    Robert Crockett avatar
    4 posts
    10/31/2013 4:10 PM
    Rodney Crow said: Melvin,

    If the govt really wanted to improve gas mileage and clean up our environment, they would have mandated EVERY vehicle be running on natural gas by now. The USA has hundreds of years worth of supply, and it produces basically ZERO emissions......but as with everything else in our government, money talks. The big oil companies are the big campaign contributors, so heaven forbid we try to actually do something to reduce our dependence on their oil. Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread!

    What type of fuel is being used to generate the electricity to charge the hybride cars? :?:



  29. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    11/1/2013 9:11 PM
    Trevor Monreal said: Can we PLEASE shut down the government again?

    Too bad the media didn't have the fortitude to do some research and ask the tough questions before we got this far into this mess...


    Some in the media did. The others were cheerleaders.



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