Jacobsen reel/bedknife grinding problems Cancel The title field is required!

1. Kyle Sherwood

   

   0 posts
   
   1/27/2015 7:01 AM

   Just finished grinding all Toro and John Deere reels and bedknives and they came out perfect. They cut evenly and "pinched" paper evenly along the bedknife. I then ground my brand new Eclipse 2 122F with a 15 blade reels, G-plex's, and 3400's, 22" with 11 blade reels and they cut on the ends better than middle (smile). Does anyone else have this problem? I grind with an Express Dual 3000 and an Anglemaster 3000

   
   
   
   
2. Roland McPhearson

   

   9 posts
   
   1/27/2015 8:01 AM

   You can bend you bedbar/bedknife into a "smile" shape by overtightening the mounting/pivot bolts which will cause that problem. To check you reel to make sure it's not a "bowtie" shape you can rest a precision straight edge on the bedknife (backed away from the reel) and see if there is a gap of .002" or more (using a feeler guage) between the reel blades and the straight edge.

   
   
   
   
3. Henry Heinz

   

   0 posts
   
   1/27/2015 1:01 PM

   I would have to agree with Roland on that one. If one is brand new and all three Jacobsen units are doing the same thing then it has to be over tight bed bolts. When I use my machine straight edge I shine a light behind it just to make sure I can see if it's bowed. If the reels are cone then you would twist the bed shoe and cause the same sort of issue. Try backing off the bolts and just snug them up and see if that makes a difference.
   
   
   Regards,

   
   
   
   
4. Wahlin Scott B

   
   1/28/2015 10:01 PM

   If you shim the bed knives they will cut perfectly. Back off the two outside screws, put in a folded piece of newspaper and retighten the screws. It works ever time and no manufacturer wants to tell you even though it happens to all of them.

   
   
   
   
5. Diaz Robert E

   
   2/3/2016 8:02 AM

   I have also had these issues and never came up with a solution. We always tighten to recommended foot pounds. Are you guys saying to go lighter? That's what I am hearing. I have tru-set style on 322's.

   
   
   
   
6. James Campbell

   

   0 posts
   
   2/4/2016 8:02 AM

   We had the same problem last year and found that if you slow the speed of the grinding stone down that it will take care of the problem.

   
   
   
   
7. Joshua Sawyer

   

   0 posts
   
   2/6/2016 8:02 AM

   I have seen similar issues with our grinders...the manufacturer response was to the the top angle truly spark out to alleviate the problem. It seems to help some, but the issue is still there. Also, takes significantly longer to grind a bed knife with a true 'spark out' on the top angle. Might be worth a try, but it doesn't make sense that it is just the Jacobsen's. Are you using the same bed knives as your other mowers or OEM?

   
   
   
   
8. Bob Pruneau

   

   5 posts
   
   2/6/2016 5:02 PM

   You could also loosen the roller pinch bolts before putting bedknive back in then snug them up . I know years ago I had a hard time getting bed bars back in on gang mowers and that was the issue . Might not be the problem but you never know especially were their new machines . I keep the bedbars matched up with the head it comes off of . I # them to match .

   
   
   
   
9. James Campbell

   

   0 posts
   
   2/8/2016 12:02 PM

   They told us that it only happen with the 15 blade reels.

   
   
   
   
10. Kyle Sherwood

    

    0 posts
    
    2/12/2016 8:02 AM

    We try to achieve zero or light contact when setting our reels. I have been dealing with this issue for over five years. We have over 25 Jacobsen reels, different years, different blade counts, different bedknife sizes and they all (smile) to some degree. We believe the gap is just over .002 after using feeler gauges and even a height gauge will show the smile. We have tried different grinders, grind angles, relief vs no relief and replaced every bearing and bushing with no success. We did find out that if you loosen the bedbar mounting/pivot bolts to zero lbs of torque, the gap (smile) went away and the unit would cut evenly across the bedknife. Once you apply more than zero lbs of torque on the bedbar mounting/pivot bolts the gap (smile) will reappear. Jacobsen has been extremely helpful throughout this process. Last spring Jacobsen sent us seven brand new reels from the factory under our warranty. Straight out of the box was the same .002 gap (smile) in all seven reels. After some more investigation from Jacobsen, I was told a chamfer was wrong, the flatness was a little out of spec, and some other minor things needed to be brought back to print but they were cleaned up by the manufacturer of the backing and should be good to go. We just received the new bedbars and they have been installed with no positive results. There is still a .002 gap (smile) in the middle of the bedknife. If you have any question don't hesitate to contact me.

    
    
    
    
11. Bob Pruneau

    

    5 posts
    
    2/14/2016 6:02 AM

    Maybe install something like toro was where the pivot bolt bottoms out and the lock nuts provides the side pressure .like zero your talking about without the fear of the bolt coming out .

    
    
    
    
12. Joshua Sawyer

    

    0 posts
    
    2/15/2016 12:02 PM

    You are describing exactly what we go through with our Deere reels...We can maintain the .002 clearance through the center, then lose the gap toward the edges. I would love to hear a solution if you are able to find one.

    
    
    
    
13. Wade Borthwick

    

    0 posts
    
    2/15/2016 4:02 PM

    It sounds like the problem is in the bedknife/bar and not the reel, You said [quote">We did find out that if you loosen the bedbar mounting/pivot bolts to zero lbs of torque, the gap (smile) went away and the unit would cut evenly across the bedknife. Are the bedbar mounting bolts bottoming out in the holes? Can you run them with zero torque? Bedbar mounting bolts are only there to locate and hold the bedknife in a set location, as long as the assembly is not moving or coming free during operation not a lot of torque is required. Are the bedbars easy to install, ie. are they being pinched by the frames? How are they being setup on the grinder, are they being pinched/stretched? Good luck.

    
    
    
    
14. Kyle Sherwood

    

    0 posts
    
    2/16/2016 8:02 AM

    We believe the problem is the bedbar and or bedknife bowing (smiling) after the bedbar mounting/pivot bolts have been torqued more than zero lbs. I don't believe the mounting/pivot bolts bottom out on the Jacobsen unit. Jacobsen recommends 25-37ft.lbs. of torque for the mounting/pivot bolts. We feel like we can get away with 5-10ft.lbs. without the bedbar moving during mowing/transporting. The bedbars seem to be a little tight when installing into the frame, however the new bedbars Jacobsen sent us are not as tight when installing. Having said that, the outcome is the same, .002 gap (smile) in the middle. As far as the grinder goes, we have tried everything while setting them up. Also, we have tried multiple grinders and operators at different locations. I have requested and received several reels that the local Jacobsen dealer have ground and gone over with a fine tooth comb. The results have been the same .002 gap (smile) in the middle while contacting and cutting on the ends.
    
    For a temporary solution, we have made adjustments to our Anglemaster 3000 so it grinds less in the middle of the bedknife by approximately .002. WARNING if you adjust your Anglemaster 3000, you will void your warranty. This process does reduce the life of the bedknife because you're grinding more material off of the ends and could lead to other issues, like angle of attack or center line of cut. I DON"T KNOW. I feel like I have invested too much time and have lost too much sleep with no real answer.
    
    Wade, do you currently maintain Jacobsen reels? Are you seeing the same issues?

    
    
    
    
15. Wade Borthwick

    

    0 posts
    
    2/17/2016 12:02 AM

    No I have not maintained Jac reels for a few years now. I have at previous courses, but I am unfamiliar with any recent changes in design. That being said, I have had a couple of reels I use now give me a smile, usually just back off the mounting bolts a hair corrects the problem.
    How do you install your bedknives?
    Have you done a face to face test on your grinders? How about the bedbars have you attempted a grind on them? Then attach bedknife and grind. You also mention that the new bedbars are not as tight, are they still tight though? Thinking it could be frames squeezing the bedbar.
    Humour me and measure the bolts to make sure they are not bottoming out. I used to have to clean out the bottom of the hole every now and then as anti-seeze would build up down there. Also make sure there are enough threads in the hole.
    If you want sympathetic ear give me a call.

    
    
    
    
16. Roland McPhearson

    

    9 posts
    
    2/17/2016 6:02 AM

    Kyle Sherwood"]We believe the problem is the bedbar and or bedknife bowing (smiling) after the bedbar mounting/pivot bolts have been torqued more than zero lbs. I don't believe the mounting/pivot bolts bottom out on the Jacobsen unit.
    
    Can you describe the pivot bolts? Maybe you can modify them so they bottom out at the proper depth so you get "zero lbs." The bolts on the old PGMs bottom out and the gap under the bolt head is supposed to be filled with a number of shims which varies with the gap size.

    
    
    
    
17. Henry Heinz

    

    0 posts
    
    2/17/2016 6:02 AM

    The first couple things I would do, one use a dial indicator and check the calibration of the bedknife grinder. Second I would use a machined straight edge and after grinding the knife I would hold it on the knife in a dark area and shine a light behind it and see if I see any coming through to confirm it is in the knife. If the Grinder is calibrated then its possible that your shoes need to be ground or replaced. Then if the knife checks out good I would calibrate the reel grinder.
    
    If you're using the new quick adjust similar to the Toro and Deere QA5 units try adjusting your springs so that they are not pushing so hard back on the adjuster ears. Sometimes that extra force can cause the knife to get pushed farther forward than the desired setting. Also if it's the four bolt adjustment then just snug up the two shoe bolts and snug up the bottom two adjuster, and just a slight bit more on the top two. Too much force can cause those things to do some funny stuff. when I had that problem it was in the grinder and they could not figure it out, twisted rails so grinder was replaced and no more issues.
    
    Try this, your using Express duals, so I never followed what they said, and left the reel on the stone to trevres back & fourth. I let it go off. I feel it causes heat build up and can cause issues such as this one. The spring tension is not that great the it will affect the grind, and maybe grind a little lighter letting the stone travel off the reel and see if that helps.
    
    Regards,

    
    
    
    
18. Fahlkvist Niklas

    
    3/11/2016 9:03 AM

    On the previous club a workt at I hade the same issue with not cutting paper in the middle of the cutting unit.
    2 things that fixed the problem for me was not tighten the pivots bolts to hard max 20 lb/ft
    and ``zero´´ out the´Angelmaster as shown in this clip that Paul Wilcox from Bernhard send me.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPp0TzR ... e=youtu.be