Life span of mowing equipment Cancel The title field is required!

1. Jeff Lloyd

   

   0 posts
   
   11/23/2016 1:11 PM

   Wanted to get some input on when you guys replace mowers or key parts on mowers such as hydraulic lines, lift arms etc. Is it more an hour reading or years owned? I have always leased our equipment but three years ago we bought our lease out that include 3 John Deere 2500s, a td200 sprayer, 7700 fwy unit, and a toro 4500 that are all now 7 yrs old, and 2653 that is 11 yrs old. We did buy two new 2500s for greens and a new 8700 fwy unit. My problem is my greens mowers have the same amount of hrs that my older 2500s have now. My goal would be to buy new greens mowers and use the old ones to take over for collars and aprons and trickle it down from there. Also replace my 2653 but need some info on how others replace their equipment. My biggest concern is my equipment failing and causing issues with our play. We start work at 5 am and do most of our work in the dark due to 4 shotguns a week min. In season. Thank you for your help!

   
   
   
   
2. Jamie Downton

   

   0 posts
   
   11/24/2016 5:11 AM

   A couple of years ago, GCI magazine put out a chart on life expectancy. Perhaps a bit ambitious in its goal, but it might be a starting point.
   
   http://www.golfcourseindustry.com/FileU ... g20big.jpg

   
   
   
   
3. Mark Van Lienden

   

   14 posts
   
   11/24/2016 11:11 AM

   I always found it depended on how much it was used and what kinda terrain you were on. For example a course that had multiple fairway mowers compared to a course that had one or a course that had smooth transport ground compared to having to go cross country or rough bouncy terrain. I felt under most conditions optimum was four years as a primary unit and four as a back up or secondary unit worked best. I feel that equipment that goes out 4-5 days per week is best to be gone off site after 8 years.

   
   
   
   
4. David Wetenkamp

   

   0 posts
   
   11/25/2016 7:11 AM

   I just wanted to piggy-back on this topic with a slightly different take. The majority of my equipment is pushing 13-17 years. I have had to spend long periods of time fixing these machines when they go down and they always seem to fail in mid-season. I putting together a comprehensive report to show my reasoning why its time to invest in new equipment. Has anyone had success in a similar situation? I'm curious as to how you went about it and the reception it had. Thanks.

   
   
   
   
5. Mark Van Lienden

   

   14 posts
   
   11/25/2016 9:11 AM

   I always tried to show all the costs of a break down. The time it takes to take it apart and the things that could be done during that time. How just because you order the parts does not mean it is always the end of the repair that they are the right parts or something else could break during repair or not even the actual problem. By now the grass could be too long causing stress to the plant and the equipment possibly causing more break downs or time removing in order to get back to consistent height. Then how sometimes you put thousands of dollars into a piece yet it is not worth that much in a resale.You can add a little emotion on how frustrating it is to work harder to make less progress and how you are trying to put out the best conditions with weak equipment.

   
   
   
   
6. Frank McQuiggan

   

   2 posts
   
   11/28/2016 6:11 AM

   I would have to say from my stand point it rely go with hours and not years. You could have the same 2 pieces of equipment doing different jobs that get totally different hours of use. For instance we use 2500's on greens and also approach and tees My greens mowers are used 7 days a week where as the Approach mowers only 3 times a week. So if I went by years then all 5 mowers would get replaced at the same time. The Greens mowers would have approximately 2000-2300 hours on them where the Approach mowers only around 1000-1100. I could then take 2 Approach mowers make them greens and rotate new approach mowers in or just get new greens mowers. We average around 350-400 hours a year on greens and around 200-250 on approach mowers. I would like to get machines switched out around the 2000-2500 hours. Also you need to look at weather you are using gas or diesel engine machines, the difference being I could probably stretch another 500 hours out of a diesel machine then a gas machine. Now I am looking at the costs of repair after the normal 2 years that manufacturers give us on warranty. So you have a lot to look at when trying to decide when to replace these machines, but I would stick to hours and not go years for reason stated above. Maybe your course doesn't use the machine as much or maybe more so I would look at the average per machine per year to figure it out

   
   
   
   
7. Kirby Keltner

   

   0 posts
   
   11/28/2016 9:11 AM

   I've done something similar to what everyone has said. All of our equipment is old and outdated but in the past they haven't had any money to put back into equipment. I started out showing them the cost of a brand new fleet, replacing 90% of the equipment we have. Once the sticker shock hit them I came back a little later and showed them an off lease equipment list so they could see what a 5 year old fleet would cost. Basically banging my head into a wall because when you show them such big numbers they will always balk. Then I used the ask for a elephant get a pony strategy and convinced them to buy a lift so we could maintain what equipment we had if they weren't going to buy anything new.
   
   I have given explanations of how much money we have been dumping into our old equipment and how much labor it takes to keep it running, as well as shown demos of new equipment so they can see how much better product they could have if they bought me some equipment. It's been a slow go but you just have to keep chipping away. My theory is to bury them in data. Parts costs, labor, what it costs the course when a piece is down, wear on other pieces to make up for the loss. Document everything and play it up. If you can prove that it makes sense financially in the long run you will have a much easier time moving forward.

   
   
   
   
8. James Schmid

   

   1 posts
   
   11/28/2016 11:11 AM

   Frank McQuiggan said: I would have to say from my stand point it rely go with hours and not years. You could have the same 2 pieces of equipment doing different jobs that get totally different hours of use. For instance we use 2500's on greens and also approach and tees My greens mowers are used 7 days a week where as the Approach mowers only 3 times a week. So if I went by years then all 5 mowers would get replaced at the same time. The Greens mowers would have approximately 2000-2300 hours on them where the Approach mowers only around 1000-1100. I could then take 2 Approach mowers make them greens and rotate new approach mowers in or just get new greens mowers. We average around 350-400 hours a year on greens and around 200-250 on approach mowers. I would like to get machines switched out around the 2000-2500 hours. Also you need to look at weather you are using gas or diesel engine machines, the difference being I could probably stretch another 500 hours out of a diesel machine then a gas machine. Now I am looking at the costs of repair after the normal 2 years that manufacturers give us on warranty. So you have a lot to look at when trying to decide when to replace these machines, but I would stick to hours and not go years for reason stated above. Maybe your course doesn't use the machine as much or maybe more so I would look at the average per machine per year to figure it out

   
   
   Whats worked the best for me is to clearly draw the connection between course conditioning and down time. If your members don't enjoy playing from rough that is 6" long because you're waiting on a new hydro unit for your rough mower for 4 days because nobody stocks anything anymore, most members can get that. From a pure finance perspective, it doesn't always make sense to replace, however if you add in the intangible of declining course conditioning and playability due to equipment down time in season, it can be enough to tip the scale. Same goes for irrigation systems. You can patch up an irrigation system indefinitely for the most part, the question of whether you want to have a different crater in a different fairway each week as mainlines fail is a different story in most cases.

   
   
   
   
9. Joe Wachter

   

   5 posts
   
   12/12/2016 3:12 PM

   As a seven year golf industry technician and a retired 35 yr. automotive tech I find the choice to repair vs replace has to come down to how well the machine/ car has been maintained. If there are alot of little things wrong that makes things not function as well as they should and all of a sudden you turn up needing a large repair
   then the obvious choice would be to replace. Three yrs ago I spent $300.00 having the impeller shaft welded and reground to repair where a bearing had locked up. Last year we had to replace the directional chute for $270.00. When the motor finally died this fall it was certainly worth the $2000.00 replacement cost. Each case has to be judged on it's own merits
   Dave Depp Turf tech

   
   
   
   
10. Sandy Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    12/12/2016 4:12 PM

    I would highly recommend Toro My Turf. We have every piece of equipment we own, including the golf cart fleet in this program. We know every dime that goes into everything. We service everything based on factory recommended intervals and have a complete history. Hour meters download directly into the Equipment Managers computer the minute they drive back in the shop. Doesn't even have to be Toro equipment. This way you know every dollar ever put into each piece and can easily use that as justification to replace since it will track the increasing repair cost as they get older. Yes, it takes time to initially input but it is worth the time and effort. It is an investment, not an expense. Annual fee is minimal. A little late for 15 year old equipment but I would suggest everyone look into it so they can take advantage of this great tool. We have had it at Barona since it hit the market. Makes us so much more efficient. We also manage our parts inventory through it.

    
    
    
    
11. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    12/13/2016 5:12 AM

    We used to lease the majority of our equipment and change it over to a new lease every 48 or 60 months. I felt stupid turning in fairway mowers that had 3,500 hours on them when some other mowers we owned were running twice that much. What we have since gone to is a $1 buyout lease (basically a fancy name for finance). This allows us to keep the mowers after the term of the lease without an on-going monthly payment. This has saved us hundreds of thousands of dollars in payments. I can honestly say I have not had the same expense in repairs with this equipment.
    
    For example, take two mowers, lease one on a traditional 60 month lease, $1 buyout lease the other for same term:
    
    Mower 1: 60 payments of $700 = $42,000. Turn the mower in at end of term and start payments over.
    
    Mower 2: 60 payments at $800 = $48,000. Keep the mower at end of term and run it another 5 years.
    
    In the first case, over a 10 year period, you would have spent roughly $84,000 plus repairs. In the second case, over a 10 year period, you would spend $48,000 plus repairs. You can't tell me that the second mower would require $36,000 in additional repairs during the second 5 year lifespan.
    
    Additionally, yes downtime has a cost. But, is the downtime costing you what a payment would be? In this case, $700-800/month per unit?
    
    Multiply by 8 mowers on average $500/each/mth = $48,000/year x 4-5 years = $192,000-240,000 saved by keeping mowers longer.
    
    Doing a $1 buyout also allows you to keep the equipment and use as a backup. We have grown our fleet this way. It also frees up cash flow to pay your mechanic better and allow for better preventative maintenance to keep the equipment running longer.
    
    I can also argue against the theory that new mowers don't break down. We replaced a triplex engine at 28 months. We've replaced hydraulic pumps at just over 3 years. We've replaced hydraulic reel motors and ancillary parts all within a lease. It can break whenever regardless of age. We are in process of replacing an $1,800 hydraulic pump on a 2003 Toro 6500D with 15,511 hours. The rest of the machine is solid and by keeping this mower I have saved roughly $78,000 in payments. I have not spent anywhere near that in repairs.

    
    
    
    
12. Max Lamas

    

    0 posts
    
    12/15/2016 6:12 AM

    Depends how good your maintenance program is. Things should be preplaceed when thry are worn before they get worse. You can theoretically run a mower intil it becomes a rust bucket. If you dont keep up on maintenaince/preventative maintenance then that peice of equipment will depreciate faster.