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I Got an Earful Today!

14 posts
  1. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    9/8/2011 3:09 PM
    I was talking to a 40yo father of two boys. He and his wife both work their butts off, they have a nice home and their boys are well taken care of. The economy has not been good to them, but they are making it barely. He knows my political outlook, but likes to think of himself as apolitical. He's not. I hate to think what it would take for him to accept a nickle in anything that remotely resembled welfare. Of course I respect him for that, but me neither.

    He told me stories of all the people he knows and has known who have taken advantage of the system. He told me all about them. He feels that he has paid the tax dollars necessary to support these parasites. He did this with such passion, I knew there was no doubt that it was my time to listen. At the end I did manage to point out that my views were based on people like him, working people who may never be financially independent. And I am considering qualifying for Social Security and Medicare as being financially independent.

    He sees freeloaders driving late model cars and going on vacation. He sees people who could work overtime or a second job to not need food stamps. He sees people who chose to have kids even though they cannot provide for them properly. I see laborers who manage to use their backs their entire lives and succeed. I see tradespeople who chose something they loved not realizing that they could be preyed upon by more powerful people who would not know a wrench from a screwdriver. I see students and entrepreneurs who just need a little breathing room to make it.

    In Florida we are drug testing welfare recipients. Based on previous courts cases this will probably not last. I think we should drug test and needs test them. The young father is right. Someone who can go on vacation does not need welfare. Someone who can buy Lottery tickets does not need their kids in the school lunch program. Is it possible that the right would be more supportive of social programs if there was concerted effort by the government to assure that they were not supporting parasites, they they were supporting future taxpayers and the truly needy?



  2. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    9/8/2011 3:09 PM
    Scott, I can tell you that I have no problem helping those that are truly in need. My wife and a I are blessed with two good salaries and feel it is important to support a couple of key charities. I have one of those parasites as a brother-in-law and that is why I am so vocal about self reliance and not sponging off others. He is too lazy to hold any job. His father-in-law got him a job at one of the ship building companies as a well paid welder. He never signed his wife up for medical benefits and eventually got fire for sleeping on the job. My wife's sister has never divorced the guy but they are separated. He continued to try and mooch money. He is actually counting on his mother to pass away so he can receive inheritance. In the meantime, he is somehow on some form of disability which is bogus. The government should not be taking care of guys like him. Let him be responsible for himself rather than the rest of us supporting his lazy twisted life! I know he isn't the only one that we are all paying for.



  3. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    9/8/2011 4:09 PM
    All well and good guys, and I agree with you.

    My question is, who is going to verify that people in need spend the money they receive properly? What is the cost of this? Does it cost more to police the benefits then the benefits itself? Is the government going to do it? This means more government workers and bigger government, unless it's privatized, and I worry that is ripe for corruption.

    If someone can answer those questions then I support it. Maybe the best solution would be values that aren't getting taught at home get taught in school? Of course that leads to other questions probably.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  4. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    9/8/2011 5:09 PM
    The government is very good at this stuff. My employer is in the process of serving hundreds of search warrants and arresting hundreds of drug dealers. How much does that cost? Is it really cheaper to let them deal drugs and get welfare than to put them in prison? It looks that way on paper, but I don't care and I bet most Americans do not either. Double my taxes for a few years and show me real results. The gratification of removing the parasites who are hurting everyone, rich and poor will be well worth it. I am trying to start a movement here! :)



  5. Homme David R
    Homme David R avatar
    9/9/2011 4:09 PM
    There is no substitute for hard work. I have people come and go through my dept. all the time. Many choose go home early over stay for some OT. I think it is just weird. The same ones that don't work, tend to complain about how hard things are and so on.

    I just think lazy people are losers and that's that.

    Dave Homme
    Falls Resort



  6. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    9/9/2011 6:09 PM
    dhomme said: There is no substitute for hard work. I have people come and go through my dept. all the time. Many choose go home early over stay for some OT. I think it is just weird. The same ones that don't work, tend to complain about how hard things are and so on.

    I just think lazy people are losers and that's that.

    Dave Homme
    Falls Resort


    My crew are all SEIU Union Represented. I do not know if it is like this everywhere, but they will walk through fire to get the job done. I have zero turnover. I have costed it out and they are a very good deal when you factor in turnover and lost time. You have to be top drawer to make it in this union league.



  7. Homme David R
    Homme David R avatar
    9/9/2011 11:09 PM
    Wow Scott, that is just great. You have well paid union people who like their job. Congrats. What is your point? Is your point that unions are good or that you are a fine manager of people?

    All I tried to say is it's surprising how many people choose not work over work, yet still yearn for the finer things in life. I see it often.

    Thanks though.

    Dave Homme
    Falls Resort



  8. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    9/10/2011 10:09 AM
    I would say first of all that you manage resources and you lead people. I would also say that some people cannot be lead. These people tend to quit high school and have problems with the law. Both of these things would exclude you from becoming a member of my union crew. They do not exclude you from working for minimum wage with no benefits. I do think I am an excellent leader, but I know that turnover is a fact of life. The fact that mine is zero is a combination of proper treatment and well communicated goals.



  9. Kauffman John M
    Kauffman John M avatar
    9/11/2011 9:09 AM
    wahlins said: Is it possible that the right would be more supportive of social programs if there was concerted effort by the government to assure that they were not supporting parasites, they they were supporting future taxpayers and the truly needy?


    The fraud and abuse that is rampant in our social programs certainly breeds distain for them, especially in tough times. It may be difficult to have a social program and weed out all the "parasites." Human nature is to take the path of least resistance. Social programs provide that path for some people. When we see waste, fraud, and abuse in government programs, we are only seeing a reflection of human nature -- both the fallibility of the recipients and the fallibility of the people in government. We forget sometimes that people are people. Those who work for the government are just as fallible as the rest of us. We have no reason to believe that they are more altruistic than the average Joe.

    Some on the right may also object to the very principle of social programs -- government confiscation of wealth by force and redistribution on subjective terms. "Needy" is very subjective. I spent the majority of my childhood in a family that earned less money than those on government assistance, but we weren't classified as "needy," but those who earned more money were "needy."

    Private organizations (Red Cross, Remote Area Medical, etc) seem to address both of these concerns. They operate on free will donations, not forced confiscation, and their distribution, while subjective, is known, so you can choose what subjectivity you find acceptable. This freedom is important.

    From my short tiem observing people, I have seen that they tend to embrace independence in their decision making. They don't often want someone else (government) makign their decisions for them.



  10. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    9/11/2011 12:09 PM
    When you refer to taxation as "forced confiscation" it pretty much foreshadows the likelihood of having a reasonable conversation.



  11. Kauffman John M
    Kauffman John M avatar
    9/11/2011 1:09 PM
    You're right -- I do think it foreshadows the likelihood (the high likelihood, at that) of having a reasonable conversation. Our Founders understood that taxation was forced confiscation of private assets by the government. If you think it is not, please explain why.

    Now, don't mistake my words for being a condemnation of taxation -- they are not. But, if we're to have a reasonable conversation about the topic, we need to have a full understand of the pieces invovled. As with my fallibility statement, I think its important for us to understand that taxation is not a light matter (and our Founders certainly took its power very seriously and with much consideration). I take very seriously the removal of any amount of freedom from the citizenry or confiscatation of any of their property (money/income are still proerty), as did our Founders.

    When we talk about social programs (or any government action), not only must we weigh its monetary value and impacts, we must also determine if the program is worth the amount of freedom that it takes from our citizens. Often, this is overlooked.



  12. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    9/11/2011 3:09 PM
    As a card carrying Independent I am in favor of helping people out, but it seems that the help has become a lifestyle. I find myself frustrated in the knowledge that my wife and I put our collective noses to the grindstone and paid all of our debts off, we didn't buy a house we couldn't afford and we don't have a credit card, yet I know quite a few guys who have: declared bankruptcy after buying houses, boats, cars and vacation that they couldn't afford, guys that have walked away from mortgages that were, at best, ill advised and several guys that have been on unemployment for going on 2 years because even though there are jobs around, they can make more money on unemployment. So I get to foot the bill for their poor decision making. I'm not sure who they think is going to hire them after 2 years on the dole, it sure won't be me.....


    Regards,

    Steve



  13. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    9/11/2011 6:09 PM
    That is the thing, Steve. I am a way left liberal, but working is working. I have been unemployed for six months during my career, but I worked at something during those two 3-month periods. In addition I kept busy setting up interviews trying to find a job. I do not want to facilitate parasites, but I do want to help those who really need it. Can the right and left find common ground trying to assist those that need it while excluding those who do not?



  14. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    9/12/2011 7:09 AM
    Scott your answer to JK was definitely "fair and balanced"............impressed you have finally taken up the Fox News moniker..........there may be hope for you yet my friend.



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