Chemical harmful effects Cancel The title field is required!

1. Ryan Leach

   

   6 posts
   
   3/10/2015 11:03 AM

   I must first state that I love the golf course. It is a great career and it is relaxing. I moved out of town and my family life is completely opposite my work life in regards to health. We raise our animals for meat, don't spray our lawn...basically modern homesteading. It has plagued me numerous times about the residuals of chemicals in the shop. It is a necessary evil to make sure the course is in perfect condition by any means and I understand it.
   I am curious if anyone has or worries about lasting chemical exposure (with or without PPE) and if anyone has research on long term effects. I was exposed (not intentionally) to Dursban and it has significant effects and the research on the chemical is absolutely absurd. It is a sad state of affairs to have to fully trust the USDA, FDA, and government organization's labels to safety. Like it has been said, "All medications that have been recalled were once approved by the FDA." Everything now a days has highly processed ingredients and items that just seem to be unnatural.
   A national psychological association has classified people that strive to eat healthy and live healthy by doing things themselves have a "mental disorder". If that is the case, I am crazy.

   
   
   
   
2. Larry Allan

   

   0 posts
   
   3/10/2015 1:03 PM

   Ryan M Leach said: I must first state that I love the golf course. It is a great career and it is relaxing. I moved out of town and my family life is completely opposite my work life in regards to health. We raise our animals for meat, don't spray our lawn...basically modern homesteading. It has plagued me numerous times about the residuals of chemicals in the shop. It is a necessary evil to make sure the course is in perfect condition by any means and I understand it.
   I am curious if anyone has or worries about lasting chemical exposure (with or without PPE) and if anyone has research on long term effects. I was exposed (not intentionally) to Dursban and it has significant effects and the research on the chemical is absolutely absurd. It is a sad state of affairs to have to fully trust the USDA, FDA, and government organization's labels to safety. Like it has been said, "All medications that have been recalled were once approved by the FDA." Everything now a days has highly processed ingredients and items that just seem to be unnatural.
   A national psychological association has classified people that strive to eat healthy and live healthy by doing things themselves have a "mental disorder". If that is the case, I am crazy.

   
   Everything is a poison in the right dose. Table salt, water even. I spilled a gallon of PMAS (mercury) all over myself 30 years ago and I'm still ticking. Just because something is natural doesn't make it safe. Castor beans are quite natural but you can also make Ricin from them. Plants hold within them, more natural "pesticides" than we could ever coat them with synthetically http://www.pnas.org/content/87/19/7777.full.pdf
   
   Excerpt
   "The toxicological significance of exposures to
   synthetic chemicals is examined in the context of exposures to
   naturally occurring chemicals. We calculate that 99.99% (by
   weight) of the pesticides in the American diet are chemicals that
   plants produce to defend themselves. Only 52 natural pesticides
   have been tested in high-dose animal cancer tests, and about
   half (27) are rodent carcinogens; these 27 are shown to be
   present in many common foods. We conclude that natural and
   synthetic chemicals are equally likely to be positive in animal
   cancer tests. We also conclude that at the low doses of most
   human exposures the comparative hazards of synthetic pesticide
   residues are insignificant."

   
   
   
   
3. Joe Wachter

   

   5 posts
   
   3/10/2015 2:03 PM

   Ryan,
   
   I don't believe anyone would think you are crazy for being concerned about exposure to the products we apply on a course. If you use proper handling techniques and protection I think you will be okay. Probably a worse factor than anything is the exposure to the sun. The sun is day in day out exposure at work and or at home. As a youngster I abused my body with the sun, never inside and never wore a shirt. As an older man, moles everywhere that I need to keep monitored on a regular basis. Need to get on the yearly dermatologist schedule.
   
   Yearly physicals since 50 and most everything in great shape but a couple tests are showing higher levels than they should. Doubt if its because of exposure to chemicals but don't really know. Follow ups and more tests to see if any significance. Father passed at 52 of heart disease and always wondered if I would make it to his age. Have since passed his age but it was on my mind. Similar body types, Type A personality, yada, yada.
   
   In the end, you never know your time. Live your life to its fullest, spend time with your kids, be good to other people.

   
   
   
   
4. Stephen Okula

   

   3 posts
   
   3/11/2015 1:03 AM

   I had a spray tech once, and he always worked with chemicals wearing all the required gear - protective hooded overalls, rubber boots and gloves, respirator mask, safety glasses. After the treatment he would strip all this stuff off and light up a cigarette.

   
   
   
   
5. Christopher Thuer

   

   101 posts
   
   3/11/2015 5:03 PM

   I once had an employee ask if what we were spraying would hurt him. He said he was driving down a cart path on #9, which is across the fairway and across a 2 acre pond, from where #1 fairway was being sprayed with a Chlorthalonil, propiconizol, trinexepac-ethyl combo, on a calm day. He said his forehead started burning after he drove down #9. I told him the cigarette he was dragging on was hurting him worse than what minimal exposure he might have had.

   
   Chris Thuer, CGCS, Bear Slide Golf Club, Cicero, IN
   
   
6. Clay Putnam

   

   33 posts
   
   3/11/2015 5:03 PM

   Stephen Okula, CGCS said: I had a spray tech once, and he always worked with chemicals wearing all the required gear - protective hooded overalls, rubber boots and gloves, respirator mask, safety glasses. After the treatment he would strip all this stuff off and light up a cigarette.

   
   
   The only thing that would make this better is if he was burning one under his respirator mask.

   
   
   
   
7. Andy Jorgensen

   

   1 posts
   
   3/11/2015 8:03 PM

   Just remember that the sulfonylureas you use to kill Poa or sedges are also used as heart medication....the active ingredient wasn't found because some turf guy had a problem. It's mostly found because of a drug they were synthesizing in the lab....just couldn't make it do what they originally wanted it to do.
   
   "What do you mean it won't prevent a heart attack? Heck, let's spray it on this weed over here and see what happens..."

   
   
   
   
8. Ryan Leach

   

   6 posts
   
   3/12/2015 6:03 AM

   I am not saying that all synthetic chemicals are bad or detrimental. I feel as though even though some compounds that occur in nature are toxic, we don't put them in our food. Larry, apple seeds contain cyanide but you don't see that in our food. You don't see castor beans as an ingredient. What you do see in food is things like, sodium nitrate (carcinogenic to humans), artificial dyes (some made from coal and can cause behavioral issues), HFCS (destroys otherwise healthy cholesterol levels). Also, we have natural pesticides in us as well; it's called an immune system. This study is somewhat misleading suggesting that what we spray is an insignificant amount compared to what the plants produce. If i eat a leaf of spinach that has 99.99% of its own pesticides, I will not get sick from eating it. If i eat that same leaf that was recently sprayed with a synthetic pesticide, the odds I could have a reaction are higher than if it is managed in a different way. I cannot be persuaded that the chemicals we spray that we have to be bundled up to spray is safe for the public. The difference between natural toxins and synthetic toxins is we know what the effects of those natural toxins are through decades or centuries of experience. Those chemicals that are synthetic that have only been around for 10-20 years are in its infancy when it comes to long-term health problems.
   Some studies are suggesting that glyphosate (sprayed on wheat fields; although I have never seen it in person and my wife has not either and she worked for an agriculture service company and has a ag business degree) is causing some individuals to be gluten-free aka have celiac or leaky gut.
   Some say autistic children are from vaccines. I say no, it is everything that is we are exposed to and our diets of "food" that is the furthest thing from food.
   I think when it comes to health, society is lax, ignorant, and do not care. It is much easier to eat a processed burger with fake cheese and get a pill to fix the resulting health problem than avoid the junk to begin with.

   
   
   
   
9. Larry Allan

   

   0 posts
   
   3/12/2015 8:03 AM

   [url=http://s1322.photobucket.com/user/pale111/media/3971698-man-in-respirator-with-cigarette-and-with-lighter-in-hand_zpss6lqmrwu.jpg.html">[img">http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u569/pale111/3971698-man-in-respirator-with-cigarette-and-with-lighter-in-hand_zpss6lqmrwu.jpg[/img">

   
   
   
   
10. Peter Bowman

    

    11 posts
    
    3/12/2015 9:03 AM

    Larry Allan said: [url=http://s1322.photobucket.com/user/pale111/media/3971698-man-in-respirator-with-cigarette-and-with-lighter-in-hand_zpss6lqmrwu.jpg.html">[img">http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u569/pale111/3971698-man-in-respirator-with-cigarette-and-with-lighter-in-hand_zpss6lqmrwu.jpg[/img">

    
    
    Smart guy, he is. Probably trying to quit.
    
    Cigarette already filtered, probably a Light version at that, and now secondary filtering through his mask. Give the guy some credit.

    
    
    
    
11. Christopher Thuer

    

    101 posts
    
    3/13/2015 8:03 AM

    If the following is accurate then it can be said that the use of chemicals has had a positive effect on our health and longevity. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy

    
    Chris Thuer, CGCS, Bear Slide Golf Club, Cicero, IN
    
    
12. Larry Allan

    

    0 posts
    
    3/13/2015 8:03 AM

    Ryan, I wasn't trying to belittle your argument. just to add a little perspective.
    I get deluged by emails from an a friend, of whom I can state, lives somewhere on the fringe of New Age, Homeopathic, Natural foods and VooDoo.
    The following email forward is an example....read the opening line and follow through. There is soo much wrong with the email itself that I could never take it seriously.
    There are a lot of groups out there, fear mongering, to make a buck
    
    
    "Is [size=150">weed killer[/size"> giving your kid ADHD?
    
    Once you see that line of ants crawling up your wall... or those missing leaves from insects attacking your garden... most folks start spraying pesticide the way Rambo sprayed bullets.
    
    They'll spray the Black Flag until those bugs wave the white flag.
    
    But in the war against bugs, you and your family can quickly become collateral damage. Because most pesticides work by attacking the nervous system of any living thing they contact -- including you and your child.
    
    A new study has found that common pesticides may be a driving force behind the spike in attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) cases.
    
    A study in the Journal of the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (winner of the longest journal name, 10 years running) discovered that mice exposed to a pyrethroid pesticide -- like deltamethrin -- while in the mother's womb or through breast milk developed several of the telltale symptoms of ADHD.
    
    I'm talking about dysfunctional dopamine signals in the brain, hyperactivity, poor working memory, and impulsive behavior.
    
    Pyrethroid pesticides are tough to avoid. If you go to your hardware store or grocer to pick up a bug spray, there's a 90 percent chance it contains a pyrethroid pesticide.
    
    And studies show that the pesticide stays in the home long after the bugs were eliminated. It stays in bed sheets, pillow cases and stuffed animals.
    
    If you have bug spray containing pyrethroid pesticide in your home (the EPA has a list of pyrethroid ingredients here), make a beeline for the trash can.(a great place to dispose of pesticides) And you may want to re-wash any linens and plush toys near where you sprayed.
    
    Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 11:05:48 -0400
    To: PSYCHICDAFODIL@hotmail.com
    From: NutritionandHealing@newmarkethealth.com
    Subject: Be prepared when THIS outbreak strikes your home

    
    
    
    
13. Richard Lavine

    

    3 posts
    
    3/13/2015 10:03 AM

    Ryan, You are wise to be concerned about pesticide use. Do we use too many pesticides to maintain our golf courses? Maybe. After all, our use is mostly for aesthetic purposes. We are not growing fruits and vegetables to feed the world. I have been very fortunate on a few occasions to hear Dr. Bruce Ames from UC Berkeley speak. He is a world-renowned toxicologist, who for many years was quite anti-pesticide, for many of the same reasons that you appear to be. Somewhere during his career he began to look at the advantages of pesticide use. He now researches and speaks on how pesticides have transformed farming to produce more and cheaper fruits and vegetables to feed the world. The benefits of populations eating more fruits and vegetables far outweigh any possible effects (of which there are few) of chemical side-effects. I urge you to check out a paper that he co-authored. He explains this way better than I ever could. The link is below. http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cpdb/pdfs/handbook.pesticide.toxicology.pdf

    
    
    
    
14. Larry Allan

    

    0 posts
    
    3/13/2015 11:03 AM

    Richard, the first article I sited was written by Dr. Bruce Ames. He seems like a very smart man

    
    
    
    
15. Marshall Brown

    

    0 posts
    
    3/13/2015 12:03 PM

    Would be nice to be compensated for all the dangers that are presented to us for even using all the chemicals that we have to on our golf courses. Does Management think that way (Don't Think So) We can use all the ppe that we are required to use, but still the dangers exists. Marshall N. Brown Link Hills CC Greeneville Tn..........

    
    
    
    
16. Craig Moore

    

    0 posts
    
    3/13/2015 8:03 PM

    Dr. Joe Vargas gives a good talk on this subject. Something everyone in the industry should sit in and listen to if given the opportunity.

    
    
    
    
17. Michael Rogers

    

    2 posts
    
    3/14/2015 12:03 PM

    Hello, We use herbicides, insecticides, etc on my golf course. No matter what anyone says, Banvil Triple smells to high heavens applied at its proper rate. Dursban, the same. My guys get headaches. Justify as you wish, this stuff is nasty.
    
    Talks like this fill lecture halls. I think the science presented is equal to the logic when discussing global warming. Emotional, a lot a pear shaped reviewed data,hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. yellow journalism. If It's Tuesday, This Must Be Belgium.?? Larry, say hi to your friend living on the edge.
    
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18. Michael Rogers

    

    2 posts
    
    3/15/2015 2:03 AM

    My point is that we as turfgrass managers are exposed to chemicals that the majority of people are not. The chemicals have reentry times for workers as well as public. We spray to obviously avoid golfers. We do not close to spray, my guys carry on their normal work routines sometimes unfortunately in recently sprayed areas. Players come through sprayed areas well before their reentry times. I have worked in over 400 golf course as salesman or adviser and have never seen a club saying sorry closed for spraying.
    
    I know there are many synthetic and naturally occurring pesticides. I have seen several people over the last 40 years do damage with natural herbs from the health food shop.
    
    Can we try and quantify what additional dangers if any that may arise from this exposure rather than mixing apples and oranges?
    
    Saludos Michael

    
    
    
    
19. Wahlin Scott B

    
    3/15/2015 6:03 PM

    Michael: This is why the old need to step aside. The South Florida GCSA spent tons of money on research of the fate of pesticides. You need to keep asking that same question, "What is happening with these toxic chemicals after we release them?" We didn't get it done. It is better, but you have to keep working. The owners certainly don't give a damn.

    
    
    
    
20. Ryan Leach

    

    6 posts
    
    3/20/2015 5:03 AM

    It should be a continual study. There are no long term studies because nothing has been around long enough. Look what happened to asbestos workers; mesothelioma. But this is only discovered long after the exposure occurs. I am not only trying to look out for my family and I but patrons and peers alike. Chemicals work great and if it works great why question what is in them? I believe that someday these will come up and bite us in the rear end from a health stand point. I do not know why I have this feeling but I do nonetheless. It is difficult to compare old time with today as well but dare I say that those that lived even one hundred years ago had less medical issues than today? I know, I know; they didn't have diagnoses then that they do today. That aside, someday we might see a non bias, long term study on the consumption and exposure to those that don't care about chemicals in food and our environment vs. people in the same region that devote themselves to avoid them.

    
    
    
    
21. Stephen Okula

    

    3 posts
    
    3/20/2015 7:03 AM

    I googled "study exposure to pesticides" and got 38,800,000 results. I don't have time to read them all, but it does seem there has been some research on the topic. Instead of lamenting the lack of information, look for it.

    
    
    
    
22. Peter Bowman

    

    11 posts
    
    3/20/2015 8:03 AM

    Ryan M Leach said: It is difficult to compare old time with today as well but dare I say that those that lived even one hundred years ago had less medical issues than today?

    
    
    Could be that they had less medical issues, but the average lifespan was 52.5 years for men, and 56.8 for women in 1915. Kind of tough to be at your grandchild's wedding back then.

    
    
    
    
23. Steven Scott

    

    0 posts
    
    3/20/2015 9:03 AM

    I would like to point out that 70 years ago much less 100 years ago we still had traveling doctors, and they were great doctors but not as well trained as what they are today, so things didn't get diagnosed. When was the last time you heard of someone dying of "old age"? I had great-great aunts and uncles to die of it, but they, like their children and grandchildren would be diagnosed with heart disease, stroke, or cancer if they were to die now. MS, Cancer, and Downs Syndrome have all been around since the beginning of time, but we haven't been able to understand why people suffered from these things so we passed it off as something else. There is no way to track it that I've heard of, but I feel certain that not many more people are suffering from cancer today than they did a thousand years ago. More people are certainly dying in car accidents and plane crashes than a thousand years ago. People are definitely living much longer now. Our food supply makes it possible for people to get all the nutrients that our bodies need compared to 100 years ago. One drawback to our society is that with less industrial and manual labor jobs (present company excluded) and more desk jobs we are way more sedentary than our grandparents and great grandparents who could sit down and eat a plate full of bacon, eggs, and cathead biscuits everyday and not worry about calories.
    
    I said all that to say this....the pesticides we use are of course a concern, although I worry more about what food processors are doing to us. The shame in it all is that pharmaceutical and ag companies have the technologies to make them safer, but they are holding onto it (I suppose until the gov't forces them to something different).