Fairway streaking Cancel The title field is required!

1. Bedford Mike P

   
   6/2/2016 6:06 PM

   Does anyone out there use smooth front rollers on their fairway units?
   Our 5410 was leaving terrible streaks once the fairways loosened up and started actively growing. They're pretty thatchy.
   Reels are parallel, very sharp. This morning I adjusted out the compensator springs to as light as they will go and boom, 90% better. Everyone is happy but me ( I'm new to the course, this issue isn't).
   Grooved front rollers with short smooth rear rollers, I'm thinking shouldered or smooth rollers for the front to give that perfect cut.
   Any thoughts?
   I also remember there being shoulder inserts for grooved rollers... my Toro guru is looking in to it, but am I chasing a dinosaur?

   
   
   
   
2. Roland McPhearson

   

   9 posts
   
   6/3/2016 6:06 AM

   What year 5410?

   
   
   
   
3. Bedford Mike P

   
   6/3/2016 12:06 PM

   It's a 2014, 2WD with rear roller brush kit.

   
   
   
   
4. Bob Pruneau

   

   5 posts
   
   6/5/2016 7:06 AM

   I've always had that issue at my last course . Jump in growth and thachy left 5 ..2" lines .its like they got single rolled after the cut because of the short rear rollers . Chased and changed mower settings trying to get a better looking final cut . They ended up stripping fairways for a while and added groomers which helped . But I could still see it faintly on some fairways ( healthy lush ones ) good luck .

   
   
   
   
5. Bedford Mike P

   
   6/6/2016 5:06 PM

   Thanks Bob, it drove me crazy all of last year.
   I'm waiting to hear back from Toro, but I think I found my parts!
   They call it a "collar kit" now. Collar kit??? What the.... anyway, for my rollers it looks like part # 104-8215, basically bolt on shoulders for 3" grooved rollers.
   I'll update this as I go, but the compensation springs for us are a disaster and now gone; my gut tells me the extra shoulder support should make it all better. And for dimes on the dollar, against the cost of new shouldered or solid rollers.
   BTW, our old JD 3125A cuts perfect... this is a Toro issue.

   
   
   
   
6. Robert Searle

   

   0 posts
   
   6/7/2016 7:06 AM

   I would also play around with the counterweight springs on the rear cutting units. It's amazing the difference sometimes when you increase or decrease that down pressure setting on the rear units.

   
   
   
   
7. Bedford Mike P

   
   6/7/2016 7:06 PM

   Robert Searle said: I would also play around with the counterweight springs on the rear cutting units. It's amazing the difference sometimes when you increase or decrease that down pressure setting on the rear units.
   

   
   Absolutely. I've been playing with those too.
   That part # was good by the way, about $10 bucks a kit, 6 kits per roller to turn them into shouldered rollers. Spendy at $60 bucks a cutting unit, but I'm thinking it's the fix.

   
   
   
   
8. Bob Pruneau

   

   5 posts
   
   6/8/2016 3:06 PM

   I'd be interested in the results . I always thought of getting full length rollers for rear but didn't want to spend the cash if it didn't solve the problem.

   
   
   
   
9. Bedford Mike P

   
   6/8/2016 5:06 PM

   I'll keep you posted, Bob. Parts should be in this Friday.
   Unless I'm happy with the cut, solids on the back may be the next step. I'm also considering getting an old bathroom scale and checking the weight difference between the motor side and weighted side of the units.
   Last year I kind of vapor locked on this problem, and missed some obvious possibilities. I will say this: for our conditions, those compensation springs were the worst thing since moldy bread. If the shoulders work, that system will be in a box by the end of the season (I'll keep them on until I see what our "firm" season is like).
   Again, it just amazes me that our old John Deere, without a bucket of springs, 2" spiral fronts and long solid rears, always cuts perfect, and with minimal routine adjustments.

   
   
   
   
10. Christopher Johnson_3

    

    0 posts
    
    6/9/2016 6:06 AM

    Mike what color is the line your seeing? Dark or light?

    
    
    
    
11. Christopher Johnson_3

    

    0 posts
    
    6/9/2016 6:06 AM

    I thought I posted this yesterday but I don't see it. Its a pdf file from toro on aftercut appearance. May or may not help.[attachment=0">Aftercut Appearance.pdf[/attachment">

    
    
    
    
12. Bedford Mike P

    
    6/9/2016 8:06 PM

    Christopher A Johnson said: Mike what color is the line your seeing? Dark or light?

    
    It was a mix, but the light color was on the last 5" of the front outside reels, just past the front tires.
    Thanks for that link, Christopher. Yep, I've read it countless times, and it's a great go-to guide.
    I think the bulk of our problem is a double cut, and I'm hoping the roller shoulders will solve it. If not, it's time to start playing with solids.

    
    
    
    
13. Christopher Johnson_3

    

    0 posts
    
    6/10/2016 10:06 AM

    What are you currently running your spacers on the rear roller at? Flattening it out may help if you have it set agressively. I don't know for sure but I think the collar kit your talking about only fills in the grooves and doesn't actually make it a shoulder roller which has a larger diameter on the ends to help push the turf down in that area. That was my experience with the ones I used. Also what is your clipping yield and mowing frequency?

    
    
    
    
14. Bedford Mike P

    
    6/10/2016 1:06 PM

    Chris, right now we're using a single spacer on the rollers. Mow height is .600, and we mow 2-3 times a week, depending on weather and manpower.
    I couldn't give you a clipping yield, but it's usually well under the "bailing hay" stage.

    
    
    
    
15. Bob Pruneau

    

    5 posts
    
    6/11/2016 4:06 AM

    I've tried everything in the after cut PDF on line from Toro . Some settings lessen the lines we were seeing but never took it away . Last course ... Nearing the 100 year mark ,Heinz 57 and low grow blue grass . Cut .650 , underlying rock so aerating and verticutting we're out of the equation , always mowed British style . Previous mowers were 3810 4 WD drive 8 " reels , never had cut issues with those old monsters . Personally I thing they should have the same length rollers and in our case better control in jumps in growth or mow more often in different patterns ( stripping) during those times . Groomers did help and they ran them all the time just enough to keep the grass standing up . Watching them mow ,driving beside them you can see the puffy turf get pushed down by front grooved rollers then cut followed by springing back up in the area where the rear rollers are short . Lines always were lighter and sort of faded out a bit by afternoon . Like I said in previous posts , you can see them if your looking for it on the healthy thicker areas . We're in the east coast of Canada . Some people don't have any issues ? But the turf combined with design might be the problem in some areas . I still like Jacs cut better without all the bells and whistles . At my current course we run JDs for the large area mowing ( doing a good job ) . New build course . Sand capped great drainage aeration, verticutting , bent .would be interesting to try one here to see if it really was the turf. Hmmm maybe I'll talk to dealer an see if they have a demo in the area .

    
    
    
    
16. Bedford Mike P

    
    6/11/2016 12:06 PM

    Great information, Bob, I was starting to think I was all alone.
    I wanted to cry yesterday, or maybe scream, when my collar kits didn't come in. But I do have an old set of Toro heads that I pulled out of the moth balls, and they have full length solids on the rear.... I'll see what the collars do (I want to approach this in a systematic way), but the solids will almost definitely be added to the mix just as a test component.
    The 3810's, those had a different reel configuration, didn't they? Two reels in the front and three in the back? Most of the Jake stuff I've worked on would be considered ancient.
    The old walking greens mowers:
    [attachment=0">jakegreensmower.jpg[/attachment">
    And I resurrected an old ground driven 7 gang rough mower that cut beautifully. The old GK IV's with cable steering had an awesome cut.

    
    
    
    
17. Bob Pruneau

    

    5 posts
    
    6/11/2016 1:06 PM

    Yep they did . Horrible to work on . Also had 2 reverse helix reels . 8" 10 blade I do believe . They did cut great when the machine was working . Belt drive reel motors . There was no such thing as quick attach lol . Good luck and systematically us the way to go to hopefully find your solution .oh the bedbar was solid mounted and adjusted reel to it .

    
    
    
    
18. Bedford Mike P

    
    6/11/2016 2:06 PM

    Glad I never came across one! They sound like a nightmare.
    I wonder if we'll ever go full circle, and start grazing sheep based on the height and consistency of their feeding? Poo on 15 blade reels, lets breed some sheep with 16 incisors for a better clip frequency!

    
    
    
    
19. Christopher Johnson_3

    

    0 posts
    
    6/13/2016 7:06 AM

    Mike P Bedford said:

    Christopher A Johnson said: Mike what color is the line your seeing? Dark or light?

    
    It was a mix, but the light color was on the last 5" of the front outside reels, just past the front tires.
    Thanks for that link, Christopher. Yep, I've read it countless times, and it's a great go-to guide.
    I think the bulk of our problem is a double cut, and I'm hoping the roller shoulders will solve it. If not, it's time to start playing with solids.

    
    
    Its odd that you are seeing both. Lighter lines indicate a double cut and darker would be from being rolled by the rollers. The shoulder kit probably isn't going to help if your only getting it on your outer cutting edge at 5".

    
    
    
    
20. Bedford Mike P

    
    6/13/2016 5:06 PM

    Some of the dark lines are tire marks, and I think tomorrow I'm going to drop all the counterbalance on the rear units.
    I still believe the collar kits will help (still waiting for them, grrrr).
    I'll try to post some pics tomorrow, passes done with CU's raised, CU's lowered but not engaged, and then with them cutting.
    I appreciate all your feedback, Chris, this is really a thorn in my side.

    
    
    
    
21. Christopher Johnson_3

    

    0 posts
    
    6/14/2016 12:06 PM

    Seems you've been headed in the right direction. You will get it dialed in pretty soon.

    
    
    
    
22. Bedford Mike P

    
    6/23/2016 5:06 PM

    I'm calling this solved.
    It took awhile to get the collar kits in, but a fast and easy install. Zero streaking this morning, no signs of that %$!# double cut! Just clean, sharp lines.
    So collar kits, counterweight springs set in the middle, and compensator springs entirely backed off. Magic.
    Heading for the coast for some crabbing, clamming and oysters, and no nightmares about blonde streakers!

    
    
    
    
23. Bob Pruneau

    

    5 posts
    
    6/25/2016 1:06 PM

    Nice . I'll keep that in mind . Thanks