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Wisconsin Vote for Governor

29 posts
  1. Ronald Kirkman
    Ronald Kirkman avatar
    42 posts
    6/4/2012 5:06 PM
    I think the vote for Governor of Wisconsin is tomorrow or Wednesday. You lads and lassies from this great state - -- any opinion on who will win? What will it actually mean for the state if the present Republican Governor retains office? What will it mean for the state if the incoming Democrat wins? What will it mean for Mr. Obama??????

    I would think this election would bring about 75% or more of the voters out.

    Capt. Kirk
    Retired Alien
    Needham Golf Club
    Needham, MA 02492



  2. Albert Kronwall
    Albert Kronwall avatar
    0 posts
    6/5/2012 8:06 AM
    Today is the day! I expect Gov. Walker will win this recall, but I am concerned about voter fraud. Our state has been inundated with out of state union members for a year and a half protesting and trying to divide the residents of this great state. Many have set up "residence" in hotels so they can vote in our election. Last year a voter ID bill passed, but has been blocked by two Dane County Judges from being implemented. (Dane County is WI version of Berkley, CA.)

    If Walker retains his seat Wisconsin will continue to see improvement in our economy. In his first two years Walker has erased a 3.6 billion dollar deficit and is now projecting a surplus. For the first time in six years, school tax levies went down. For the first time in 12 years, property taxes went down. Invested 1.2 billion in new state funds for Medicaid. I could go on and on but you get the point.

    If Milwaukee Mayor Barrett were to win Wisconsin would most likely follow the path of California and Illinois. We are not sure though because Barrett has admitted he doesn't have a plan other than he "wouldn't do what Walker did". If you look at Barrett's record as Mayor you will see that Milwaukee has been in a downward trend and is now the fourth worst large city in the nation.

    Wisconsin has been a blue state for many years but I think we will be changing to red after today which will create a real problem for Obama. Without winning WI I don't think he can win the nation.

    Residents of WI are tired of having politicians tell us they are going to reform when running for office and then not fulfilling those promises once they are in. We elected Walker to reform wasteful government spending, which he is doing what he said he would do. Now the government employees are having a tantrum because they have to make a small contribution to their pension and insurance.

    It's not a shared sacrifice if the government employees are not included in the reforms.



  3. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    6/5/2012 10:06 AM
    Gee, didn't I just suggest that voter fraud is real and more of a problem than believed? I have heard that any name listed on the recall counted, even if it was Adolph Hitler or Mickey Mouse. Based on that and the refusal to safeguard Wisconsin voting rights, what are the odds that it will be a dirty election, even if Walker wins? Why does it always seem like union money use of questionable character?



  4. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    6/5/2012 2:06 PM
    I may be wrong, as I often tend to be, but think the recall will be much closer than the democrats and unions first thought it would be. A few months ago I think they felt the recall to be a shoo in to shoo him out........as the ole coach on game day says........not soooooooo fast.



  5. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    6/6/2012 5:06 AM
    Walker won his election - again. This is not going to set well with a certain segment of the population. Can one of you Florida-fellers do a wellness check on Scott?



  6. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    6/6/2012 6:06 AM
    I am fine Clay. Thanks for asking.



  7. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    6/6/2012 7:06 AM
    Clay I think he won by a bigger margin in the recall than he did the regular election. Guess the folks of Wisconsin are smarter than the union leaders think they are.



  8. Ronald Kirkman
    Ronald Kirkman avatar
    42 posts
    6/6/2012 8:06 AM
    Clay, that was funny.

    Professor "Scott" that was a good comeback

    David, you are right.

    According to the news close to 50% of union employees dropped out of the union. Now they were free to choose their own medical plan and found out it was cheaper than what the union was offering. A union member in WI has to buy the insurance through the union.

    Capt. Kirk
    Retired Alien
    Needham Golf Club
    Needham, MA



  9. David Brandenburg
    David Brandenburg avatar
    3 posts
    6/6/2012 8:06 AM
    We in Wisconsin are smarter than the average person! I am glad this is over so the state can get back to business.

    The one comment I said to everyone I talked to is there is a huge difference between collective bargaining for public and private employee unions. Collective bargaining is not a bad thing and they way most private companies have run for years without issue.

    The problem is when the municipality and union could not come to terms the public unions are guaranteed binding arbitration to settle collective bargaining disputes through law. Binding arbitration is not a negotiation. It is a winner take all and the taxpayer/municipality rarely won.

    I work for a county, we took a 5.9% pay-cut through now paying 50% of our retirement cost. (We had already paid 12% towards insurance where I work.) That a big cut even if the money one day will come back to me. Because before the change I had 5.9% more in my check and the money was put in my retirement.

    I supported the changes and our Governor for the greater good and long term success of the state and local governments.

    Last nights victory was more than the original election. Turnout in my county was 81%, that is incredible for only one race but it showed how satisfied the majority was in Walkers changes.



  10. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    6/6/2012 9:06 AM
    We had two union related issues on the ballot in San Diego and both went against the union. One of the props was about forcing public employee unions back into a 401K type of program to eliminate people making more being retired than working. Like many other city and state governments, paying the defined benefits was taking up by far the largest percentage of the budget. We are broke and the old ways no longer work. I am sure this will be immediately challenged in court. The other prop had to do with labor rates for city contracted jobs. Everyone prior had to match the union wage no matter the size or scope of the job. Non-union contractors had been prevented from fairly bidding on a city job. This will now greatly improve competition and save the city money they couldn't afford to pay.



  11. Steve Nelson
    Steve Nelson avatar
    0 posts
    6/6/2012 9:06 AM
    Sandy, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the San Diego ballot measure exclude police and fire employees? The paper in Riverside ran an article a while ago that gave the names of the top 100 pensioners in the county. 99 were police and fire (the odd guy out happened to be my dad's best friend). I'm sure it's the same in San Diego. Not sure how much eliminating pensions for secretaries and janitors (and greenkeepers) is actually going to save you guys.



  12. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    6/6/2012 10:06 AM
    David, thanks for the information, it was informative and I think showed why it became an issue. You had to take a pay cut basically, you made the decision to support it because in the long run you will be better off. People that probably didn't support it, might not have been in a good position to take the pay cut for whatever reason, either from the way they run their own finances to issues with medical costs. Each person is different.

    I understand some of Sandy's point but also get where Steve is coming from. It probably goes back to the health of the state or county's pension plan. If contributions and management of the pension fund has been proper it should matter which retirement vehicle is used, but that's just my opinion. Like I have mentioned before on pensions, our city basically mismanage our police and fire union by not contributing when it was near fully funded, and also by paying out whatever the employee contributed on retirement. They have made changes along with a sales tax for five years and have seemed to fix it. We are in a state pension fund at 90% plus funded and it is in great shape. It stayed that way even with the previous Governor Blunt (R) wanted to pull some money out of it to balance some of the budget. They didn't allow him to touch the pension fund.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  13. Sean Hoolehan
    Sean Hoolehan avatar
    0 posts
    6/6/2012 10:06 AM
    I work for a county, we took a 5.9% pay-cut through now paying 50% of our retirement cost. (We had already paid 12% towards insurance where I work.) That a big cut even if the money one day will come back to me. Because before the change I had 5.9% more in my check and the money was put in my retirement.
    David, Was the county making a 15% salary contribution toward your retirement so the net effect (pre-tax benefit) was a 5.9% hit. I think most employees would love a 50% match on 401K's. This kind of adjustment had to have a positive effect on the state to since they now would save 7.5 percent in employer payroll tax (social security and medicare). I commend you for your positive attitude toward this and your Governor for his sticking to his guns. Here in Oregon our public employee retirement program is strangling the state.
    I supported the changes and our Governor for the greater good and long term success of the state and local governments.

    Last nights victory was more than the original election. Turnout in my county was 81%, that is incredible for only one race but it showed how satisfied the majority was in Walkers changes.



  14. Robert Crockett
    Robert Crockett avatar
    4 posts
    6/6/2012 7:06 PM
    I hope Wisconsin Becomes a MODEL for thew rest of the US.........you can argue if ya want, but a 2.6billion deficit to a 155 mil surplus speaks for itself. Without direct direct infringement, increase in taxation..ect



  15. Keith Pegg
    Keith Pegg avatar
    0 posts
    6/6/2012 7:06 PM
    Scott Walker won because he had corporation backers that out spent almost 9 to 1 and 60+% came from outside Wisconsin. Wisconsin wages are going down on average and you can bet the cooperate chief / CEO's wages are still going up. And they pay lower percent taxes than the middle class, that is fading fast into the lower class fast. I hope we learned from this one; but I fear not. It is not Democrat or Republican any more it is the Rich and the (new) poor. One good thing is if we keep fighting the rich we will force them to spend their moneys on elections and get some of that back into the peoples hands. It may only be a drop in the bucket.
    Keith



  16. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    6/7/2012 7:06 AM
    David, I applaud you. Your most telling comment in your post was "I supported it for the greater good and long term success of state and local govt"...........even though it affected you personally and directly. If more politicians in this country of ALL DENOMINATIONS took the same attitude it would be a better place.



  17. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    6/7/2012 10:06 AM
    Keith, if you add up all the money from unions around the country along with the democratic party, the financial influence was pretty equal in Wisconsin. Is big business any different in donating than big unions? They are both trying to buy their position. Is it true that in some precinct, maybe Madison, that the vote actually came to 117% of registered voters in that area? I heard the number kicked around and I may be off on the location but I am really curious about the number. that ought to get everyone's attention on voter fraud! Just for the sake of interest, San Diego had a 36% voter turnout. That almost makes my vote count as three. I love controlling that much power!



  18. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    6/7/2012 5:06 PM
    Sandy Clark, CGCS said: Keith, if you add up all the money from unions around the country along with the democratic party, the financial influence was pretty equal in Wisconsin. Is big business any different in donating than big unions? They are both trying to buy their position. Is it true that in some precinct, maybe Madison, that the vote actually came to 117% of registered voters in that area? I heard the number kicked around and I may be off on the location but I am really curious about the number. that ought to get everyone's attention on voter fraud! Just for the sake of interest, San Diego had a 36% voter turnout. That almost makes my vote count as three. I love controlling that much power!




    Nation's unions come up big losers in Wisconsin recall


    Election outcome shows labor movement has lost its power in the political arena

    By Sam Hananel

    Associated Press

    WASHINGTON, D.C. —

    Gov. Scott Walker's vic­tory in Wisconsin's re­call election exposed the shrunken political mus­cle of the unions that tried to oust him.

    Republicans in some nearby states where an­ti- union measures failed this year say they now plan to use Walker's vic­tory to mount renewed efforts in 2013.

    Instead of ejecting the Republican who slashed state and local government workers' job benefits and bargain­ing rights, the union-in­stigated recall has made Walker a model for con­servatives five months before the November elections.

    "I think it's bad news for the labor move­ment," said John Russo, a labor studies professor at Youngstown State University. "It gives the impression they are not as strong as they once were, which they are not."

    Labor leaders main­tain that the fight was worth it, that the mas­sive protests against Walker and bitter divi­sions it created will make other governors and legislators think twice before making similar forays against unions.

    But Walker's victory is encouraging Republi­cans in other states to push ahead with their ef­forts to curtail unions' power and chop away at the benefits gained for their members over the years.

    GOP lawmakers in states such as Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri and New Hampshire are likely to push harder for anti-union legislation.

    Russo said the lesson of Wisconsin may be to take on unions in smaller steps rather than through sweeping mea­sures as in Ohio and Wis­consin.

    ‘Hitting unions on all fronts'

    No labor fight engaged America since President Ronald Reagan fired 11,000 air traffic controllers for illegally striking in 1981, a move that encouraged businesses to take tougher stands against unions and helped precipitate a steep decline in union member­ship.

    "I consider it bigger than the air traffic control­lers," said Gary Chaison, a professor of industrial re­lations at Clark University in Worcester, Mass. "I think it's going to embold­en employers in bargain­ing and discourage work­ers from joining unions. I think it's hitting unions on all fronts."

    After Republicans swept to power in dozens of state legislatures in 2010, unions have spent millions battling anti-labor measures across the coun­try. They were already smarting this year after Indiana became the first state in a decade to pass an­ti- union legislation and Michigan banned automat­ic deduction of union dues from teacher paychecks.

    Their loss in Wisconsin overshadowed the unions' biggest political win in the past year, when Ohio vot­ers last November struck down in a referendum a law pushed by Republican Gov. John Kasich curbing collective bargaining rights for public workers.

    AFL-CIO political di­rector Mike Podhorzer said unions should get more credit for the Ohio win and for collecting nearly 1 million signa­tures to initiate the Wis­consin recall. Walker and his supporters spent $47 million — compared with Democrats' $19 million [/color]— to counter a strong union ground game that pushed voter turnout to levels usually seen during presi­dential contests.

    "This is not an experi­ence many politicians want to go through," Pod­horzer said. Still, the turnout effort fell short of producing the unions' hoped-for results. Exit polls showed voters from union households breaking 63 percent to 37 percent for Democrat Tom Barrett.
    [/color]

    Sandy according to this article your statement about what was spent being equal doesn't ring true. Of course maybe for the article who knows what the scource is.

    If there was a voting precinct that had 117% of the registered voters in the area, that certainly needs to be investigated. Wonder how that vote turned out?

    Interesting how the Ohio vote turned out when the issue of collective bargining was taken to the voters. I wonder if this issue had been taken to the Wisconsin voters how it would have turned out.

    From what I heard, there were some voters that didn't like how the bargining rights had been taken away, but felt that Gov. Walker shouldn't be recalled because of that issue, if it had been incompentence, ethics, or scandle, those would have been reasons to recall him.

    As I have said before, the unions had agreed to Gov. Walker's other demands, why he felt he needed to take away the bargining rights I don't get. It seems he had things going his way and then he created this fire storm, what did the election cost the state? Maybe David B who was there and probably understands it better then any of us could explain it.

    I did find it funny that Missouri is listed when the unions here are not strong at all, and as I have said before have worked with management to get things fixed for the betterment of all, and no one had to take their bargining rights away.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  19. Dennis Cook
    Dennis Cook avatar
    1 posts
    6/8/2012 6:06 AM
    The only bargaining rights that were taken away were for benefits. You cannot have the taxpayers subjected to lavish benefits that the private sector does not get. This allows the the govt to setup the retirement and benefit systems based on whats economically feasible, not based on what the union demands. Previously if the union did not agree,they would go to arbitration and what ever the arbitrator said was it, they had no recourse, even if they couldnt afford it. That drives budgets up and gives the taxpayer no say in the process except to accept the tax increase to go along with the benefits increase.

    They can still collective bargain on wages. Remember FDR said govt employees should never be allowed to unionize because they would be working against the taxpayers.



  20. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    6/8/2012 9:06 AM
    The way I heard the union money described was the smaller number was what the Wisconsin unions put in but a big dollar amount came from other unions around the country. I don't know if we will ever hear the exact numbers on either side because it will be spun for the occasion.



  21. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    6/8/2012 10:06 AM
    Mel if a voting precinct in Louisiana had a 117% of vote..............I can tell you exactly what party the precinct held the majority in...........would not even be a question of dispute.



  22. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    6/8/2012 10:06 AM
    FDR was okay with government employee unions. He was not okay with them striking.



  23. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    6/8/2012 11:06 AM
    Sandy Clark, CGCS said: Keith, if you add up all the money from unions around the country along with the democratic party, the financial influence was pretty equal in Wisconsin. Is big business any different in donating than big unions? They are both trying to buy their position. Is it true that in some precinct, maybe Madison, that the vote actually came to 117% of registered voters in that area? I heard the number kicked around and I may be off on the location but I am really curious about the number. that ought to get everyone's attention on voter fraud! Just for the sake of interest, San Diego had a 36% voter turnout. That almost makes my vote count as three. I love controlling that much power!


    Sandy I just saw that the guy who is the big birther guy demanding to see President Obama's birth certificate is running neck and neck for a judgeship in San Diego County, the other guy is a long standing prosecuting attorney with a good record (as I heard, but remember my sources) What is that birther guy's background that says he would be a better judge do you know? Although 36% is a pretty good turnout, we had 18% with just a smoking ban repeal on the ballot, I wonder if that is what happens with only a 36% turnout? What might I be missing?

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  24. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    6/8/2012 11:06 AM
    Mel, we fly nearly blind on these judge votes. I heard nothing on virtually any of them. The closest I can get to making a good decision is to ask a former high school classmate who is a judge. Our voting information and material sent from the Registrar of Voters provides only the judges statements. This is all we have to go on. You may have heard something we didn't even have brought up in San Diego. This category and how it is handled has always bothered me. We really don't know what we might be getting. Anyone can write a good bio!



  25. David Brandenburg
    David Brandenburg avatar
    3 posts
    6/8/2012 12:06 PM
    Sean, The county was paying near 12% (5.9 plus 5.9) towards my retirement. It was a hell of deal. But that does not make the cut any easier for the average worker. The money was budgeted separately. 5.9% was the employer share, 5.9% was the employee share but the employer paid that anyway. The challenge is past wage increases were traded away for the higher retirement. Pay, insurance, retirement and days off were all negotiated together and over time we ended up where we are now.

    Mel - Perhaps you do not have binding arbitration where you are from. Like I said earlier, collective bargaining is not bad, but in WI when the govt body and the union cannot come to an agreement it has to go to binding arbitration. The government body/taxpayer usually lost and the union received everything they wanted. With the new rules you negotiate as a group on wages. Everyting else management says this is the way it is, if you want to work here great we love to have you. If not good luck. The employees are still safe, they still get vacation and insurance and breaks at appropriate times. The good changes are:
    1. Managers can pick the best employee to come in on overtime so the work is done they way they want.
    2. Managers can fire the bad employees first rather than last in-first out that protected senior employees from downsizing reguardless of skill level.
    3. If the manger wants the employees to work 6 to 3 today instead of the normal 7 to 4 the employees will work those hours.
    4. If we are waiting for a equipment repair we can say lets take lunch now and meet back in 30 minutes rather than sit around waiting for the equipment repair for 30 minutes then taking a 30 minute lunch just as the piece of equipment is ready to go.

    The one problem I have seen with the changes is in the schools and it will take some time to work things out. In the past school administrators and school boards were tied by union rules what the could and could not do. Any change at all had to be approved by the union so change happened slow. In result school districts did not have to hire good managers of people as principals or administrators.

    It is easy to manage when the rules do not allow you to change anything. But now you have a few bonehead boards and administrators doing things without employee consultation or thinking because they can. It will take some time to work this all out and some weak administers will have to be fired.

    In the end, teachers and govt workers in WI still have great jobs. The pay is a little less and they can leave those jobs at any time and people will line up to apply for them.

    I think it was Dane county had 118% of registered voters vote. I have not seen that stat much so I am not sure it was true but I did see it late Tue night. It was not 118% of eligible voters but of registered voters. It is possible everyone voted and some kids home from college voted in Dane county as well.



  26. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    6/8/2012 2:06 PM
    Thanks David for all that information.

    Where I work now we don't have a union or what little union there is, is very weak, except for police and fire. We have merit rules that protect us from improper firing so really we don't need that union protection. Not sure if they have binding arbitration or not. In New Jersey where we all belonged, I don't think we had it there either. The county was pretty good about things, the only thing they used to do was drag their feet on raises, would wait 6 months before starting them, the union sends a nasty letter, we get a big check and continue on. Funny how those little rules of OT and stuff always pop up.

    Those changes all sound good. Explaining the arbitration helps a lot, why it got to that point where it allowed basically one side to win always isn't good, hopefully it won't swing so far the other way. I would have thought that both sides could come to an agreement for the betterment of all, and wonder if the Governor could have achieved his goals without the big ruckus and then the following recall if he would have handled it a little better? It would be interesting to hear your insight on that since you were in the middle of it and we all were looking in from the outside.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  27. Dennis Cook
    Dennis Cook avatar
    1 posts
    6/8/2012 2:06 PM
    David Brandenburg, CGCS said: Sean, The county was paying near 12% (5.9 plus 5.9) towards my retirement. It was a hell of deal. But that does not make the cut any easier for the average worker. The money was budgeted separately. 5.9% was the employer share, 5.9% was the employee share but the employer paid that anyway. The challenge is past wage increases were traded away for the higher retirement. Pay, insurance, retirement and days off were all negotiated together and over time we ended up where we are now.

    Mel - Perhaps you do not have binding arbitration where you are from. Like I said earlier, collective bargaining is not bad, but in WI when the govt body and the union cannot come to an agreement it has to go to binding arbitration. The government body/taxpayer usually lost and the union received everything they wanted. With the new rules you negotiate as a group on wages. Everyting else management says this is the way it is, if you want to work here great we love to have you. If not good luck. The employees are still safe, they still get vacation and insurance and breaks at appropriate times. The good changes are:
    1. Managers can pick the best employee to come in on overtime so the work is done they way they want.
    2. Managers can fire the bad employees first rather than last in-first out that protected senior employees from downsizing reguardless of skill level.
    3. If the manger wants the employees to work 6 to 3 today instead of the normal 7 to 4 the employees will work those hours.
    4. If we are waiting for a equipment repair we can say lets take lunch now and meet back in 30 minutes rather than sit around waiting for the equipment repair for 30 minutes then taking a 30 minute lunch just as the piece of equipment is ready to go.

    The one problem I have seen with the changes is in the schools and it will take some time to work things out. In the past school administrators and school boards were tied by union rules what the could and could not do. Any change at all had to be approved by the union so change happened slow. In result school districts did not have to hire good managers of people as principals or administrators.

    It is easy to manage when the rules do not allow you to change anything. But now you have a few bonehead boards and administrators doing things without employee consultation or thinking because they can. It will take some time to work this all out and some weak administers will have to be fired.

    In the end, teachers and govt workers in WI still have great jobs. The pay is a little less and they can leave those jobs at any time and people will line up to apply for them.

    I think it was Dane county had 118% of registered voters vote. I have not seen that stat much so I am not sure it was true but I did see it late Tue night. It was not 118% of eligible voters but of registered voters. It is possible everyone voted and some kids home from college voted in Dane county as well.


    David said something interesting, he said something about negotiating days off. Im sure those are paid days off that he is talking about. How come it is always in favor of the employee to get the freebies? How come the employee gets paid for not working? Would anyone ever except the employer saying, "I get one free work day from you since I have been loyal to you and have employed you for so long?" How long would that last? But yet people sure hold there ground for paid vacation days, sick days and whatever other days they can get, PAID of course. Just saying



  28. David Brandenburg
    David Brandenburg avatar
    3 posts
    6/8/2012 3:06 PM
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said: Thanks David for all that information.

    Where I work now we don't have a union or what little union there is, is very weak, except for police and fire. We have merit rules that protect us from improper firing so really we don't need that union protection. Not sure if they have binding arbitration or not. In New Jersey where we all belonged, I don't think we had it there either. The county was pretty good about things, the only thing they used to do was drag their feet on raises, would wait 6 months before starting them, the union sends a nasty letter, we get a big check and continue on. Funny how those little rules of OT and stuff always pop up.

    Those changes all sound good. Explaining the arbitration helps a lot, why it got to that point where it allowed basically one side to win always isn't good, hopefully it won't swing so far the other way. I would have thought that both sides could come to an agreement for the betterment of all, and wonder if the Governor could have achieved his goals without the big ruckus and then the following recall if he would have handled it a little better? It would be interesting to hear your insight on that since you were in the middle of it and we all were looking in from the outside.

    Mel


    So you can see that Wisconsin Public Unions are different even from other public unions and very different from private unions. You ask a great question, could have this been done without the ruckus?

    The majority elected a conservative Governor and he had both houses so half the state was in favor of what he did. I do not honestly see the other half coming to the table in good faith to give up their bargaining and binding arbitration rights no way no how. So those rights had to be taken away as step one to do anything else.

    Walker did not cause the ruckus, the public unions and their members did. He did what the majority elected him to do and then supported him in the recall.

    The general public only hears collective bargaining and thinks it is horrible that it was taken away on everything but wages. But without the knowledge of how bargaining works and how it is arbitrated you really only have a part of the story.

    There is a place for private unions, there may be a place for public unions but no group should have so much power as to hold their employer or the taxpayer hostage.



  29. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    6/8/2012 10:06 PM
    Thanks again David,

    It sounds like the governor did what he needed to do as it sounded like that was the only way to get it to work. It was just what I was reading that unions had given into the demands before binding arbitration was taken. Almost sounds like that should have been addressed first, but then I guess they wouldn't have gotten the monetary changes they needed.

    I guess I am always looking for groups to work together for solutions to problems. Maybe since I have seen them work together here and even see the tax payers come together in this tough economy and vote to raise their sales tax to address the problem, I would expect anyone could. I do think they supported the tax, because changes were made, the city's old police and fire pension was closed to new employees, new employees are now in the state pension plan.

    I did wonder, what you agreed to as a county employee, was that the same for county employees through out the state? Did city or state workers get the same deal? Is it because of the unions that you belong too? This does sound a little messed up for especially local governments, not giving them much control over their employees? Maybe it's just the way I read it.

    I know around here pay and benefits are so different from city to city or district or whatever local government entity it is. I do know our fire district for our little town and some unincorporated areas along with our city police force are not in any pension plan, not even the state. They do have them set up in 457's while I have given the pension history of Springfield ad nauseum.

    Thanks again.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

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