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Toro 5410 D Rear Reels Striping

22 posts
  1. Ryan Shea
    Ryan Shea avatar
    0 posts
    4/28/2017 7:04 AM
    We have a 2010 Toro 5410 D that is leaving stripes on the fairways the width of the reels on both sides. All of the reels are set up the exact same. HOC is .600, spacers on the rear roller are all the same, the chain links are all on the 4th link and the spring is set to 5". Adjusted the Rear spring to each notch, as Im going to call it, and even took them off and still have the problem.

    Reel RPM is 1700 on all units
    Hydraulic minifold block tested: Front 1400psi Rear 900psi
    Tested all of the motors non bypassed fluid through the small hose.

    We have had our sales rep from Toro out and he went through it like we did and can't figure it out either. Is there anyone that has had these similar issues? What did you come up with being the problem.



  2. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    4/28/2017 7:04 AM
    Not sure if this helps, but attached is the Toro Aftercut Appearance Guide.



  3. Ryan Shea
    Ryan Shea avatar
    0 posts
    4/28/2017 8:04 AM
    Andy Jorgensen said: Not sure if this helps, but attached is the Toro Aftercut Appearance Guide.


    Thanks Andy,
    We were looking at this document just the other day when we were looking for a reason as to why it is doing this.

    I did forget we had changed the mowing height of the rear reels as well. Dropped to .550 and still had the same results??? Maybe we drop to .500 on the rear and leave front at .600.

    Also, we did move the rear reels to the front and two of the front reels to the rear and still had the same results. So we can rule out reel set up. Maybe they aren't getting enough down pressure in the rear?



  4. Andrew Cross
    Andrew Cross avatar
    5 posts
    4/28/2017 11:04 AM
    I do believe there is a spring (coil spring for lack of a technical term) on the back arms that can be adjusted to increase down pressure. I'm going entirely off memory right now but I think there is a sort of ear with 3 holes on the back 2 arms that the spring goes into.



  5. Roland McPhearson
    Roland McPhearson avatar
    9 posts
    4/28/2017 11:04 AM
    Make sure the bedbar adjusters for that 2010 have been upgraded to the new style. I doubt that's the problem but it's the first thing I would do.



  6. Kevin Girt
    Kevin Girt avatar
    0 posts
    4/29/2017 9:04 AM
    when were the reels and bedknives last ground? also make sure there is no end play on the reels.



  7. Matt Dutkiewicz
    Matt Dutkiewicz avatar
    0 posts
    4/30/2017 9:04 PM
    Purchased two of these mowers last year, and have had the same issues. We have had the tech out a few times to try speed up reel rpm, adjusting down pressure springs, and switching reels around. None of these have solved the issue. The tech has suggested maybe weighting them down somehow, but I don't like that ideas as it may cause hydraulic issues with the lift arms. Will be curious to see if there are any solutions forthcoming.



  8. Frank McQuiggan
    Frank McQuiggan avatar
    2 posts
    5/1/2017 7:05 AM
    Kevin Girt said: when were the reels and bedknives last ground? also make sure there is no end play on the reels.



    This would be my first question also.

    Then I would check to make sure that reel to bed knife is set correctly and that you can cut paper the whole length of the reel. When you set you HOC are you setting it on the bench (off the unit) or while it is sitting flat out lifted off the ground. I found that when I set cutting units on a bench the HOC is always off slightly so no0w after grinding I put them all back on the machine set my Bed Knife to reel clearance and HOC with the cutting units hanging just like they were on the ground cutting. Gives me a better adjustment.

    Might not be a big deal but what HOC gauge are you using? I switched over to the RHOC from Turf Addict a year ago and was amazed at how far off my other gauges were, also with the RHOC doesn't matter who is using it the results will be the same it will not flex at all, (I've tried) unlike most other gauges that have a bit of flex to them throwing the HOC off.



  9. Kenneth Meals
    Kenneth Meals avatar
    2 posts
    5/1/2017 10:05 AM
    A very common problem with those mowers is the solenoid relief valves. You can switch them to see if the problem disappears or follows a different cutting appearance with the cutting unit. One relief valve operates the front reel (MSV2), the other operates the rear reels (MSV1). Both solenoids have a different relief pressure so you would have to put them back where they came from. Going by the picture my bet would be MSV1 needs replacing.



  10. Ryan Shea
    Ryan Shea avatar
    0 posts
    5/2/2017 8:05 AM
    Andrew Cross said: I do believe there is a spring (coil spring for lack of a technical term) on the back arms that can be adjusted to increase down pressure. I'm going entirely off memory right now but I think there is a sort of ear with 3 holes on the back 2 arms that the spring goes into.


    Thanks for the reply!
    We did adjust the coil spring your refering to. We even took it the bolt, which holds it in place, out and we had the same results everytime we adjusted it.



  11. Ryan Shea
    Ryan Shea avatar
    0 posts
    5/2/2017 8:05 AM
    Kevin Girt said: when were the reels and bedknives last ground? also make sure there is no end play on the reels.


    All of the reels were just ground this past winter. The end play I will look at today.

    Thanks



  12. Ryan Shea
    Ryan Shea avatar
    0 posts
    5/2/2017 8:05 AM
    Kenneth Meals said: A very common problem with those mowers is the solenoid relief valves. You can switch them to see if the problem disappears or follows a different cutting appearance with the cutting unit. One relief valve operates the front reel (MSV2), the other operates the rear reels (MSV1). Both solenoids have a different relief pressure so you would have to put them back where they came from. Going by the picture my bet would be MSV1 needs replacing.


    Kenneth, this is where I am leaning. When we have had our Toro rep out, all of the tests we have performed, they have ruled out any hydraulic problems. But, this seems to be the issue. We will have to try and switch them and see.

    Thanks!



  13. Ryan Shea
    Ryan Shea avatar
    0 posts
    5/2/2017 8:05 AM
    Frank McQuiggan said:
    Kevin Girt said: when were the reels and bedknives last ground? also make sure there is no end play on the reels.



    This would be my first question also.

    Then I would check to make sure that reel to bed knife is set correctly and that you can cut paper the whole length of the reel. When you set you HOC are you setting it on the bench (off the unit) or while it is sitting flat out lifted off the ground. I found that when I set cutting units on a bench the HOC is always off slightly so no0w after grinding I put them all back on the machine set my Bed Knife to reel clearance and HOC with the cutting units hanging just like they were on the ground cutting. Gives me a better adjustment.

    Might not be a big deal but what HOC gauge are you using? I switched over to the RHOC from Turf Addict a year ago and was amazed at how far off my other gauges were, also with the RHOC doesn't matter who is using it the results will be the same it will not flex at all, (I've tried) unlike most other gauges that have a bit of flex to them throwing the HOC off.


    We set ours initially on the bench after they are ground. When they are checked through out the season it is on the mower unit. All of the HOC are the same all the way around. We even swapped reels from the front and put them on the back resulting in the same striping.



  14. Roland McPhearson
    Roland McPhearson avatar
    9 posts
    5/3/2017 5:05 AM
    Do you have the old reverse rake reels, radial reels, or the new forward rake reels on there?

    How did it look at the very beginning of the season?

    -Roland



  15. Bob Pruneau
    Bob Pruneau avatar
    5 posts
    5/6/2017 12:05 PM
    Are the lift arms moving freely .remove ram and reel and move by hand to see if there is any binding . There is a tension spring as mentioned above but I don't think it does a whole lot . You just remove the bolt and try the next hole . Not the first time I've heard of this problem ? Post what you find out . Thanks Most likely the msv1 or msv2 valve as Kenny said . I had the same thing but reversed ( split O ring ) fails under load .



  16. Ryan Shea
    Ryan Shea avatar
    0 posts
    5/10/2017 9:05 AM
    We have been batteling this now all season. Here is a list of what we have done in order:
    All the reels were ground this winter, first mow was back in March.
    Checked HOC: all the same around .600
    Checked RPM of reels
    We switched the front reels with the back reels had the same results.
    checked the the springs on the to of the reels, all set to 5.5"
    Adjusted the rear spring to the three different notches, even took the bolt off.
    Changed the MSV1 valve
    Checked the O rings on the MSV2
    Switched the solenoids
    Changed the bushings on the lift arms
    Changed HOC to .500 then .525 now to .550 still see lines

    After all this we still have the same results.



  17. Wade Borthwick
    Wade Borthwick avatar
    0 posts
    5/11/2017 10:05 AM
    Do you have a closer picture of the turf? Is it uncut, poorly cut, a different height or is this purely an after cut issue? The reels were ground in March, have you dubbed the ends of the bedknife (a ramp on the very corners equal to thickness of bednife) could have false contact. This is a reach as you have swapped reels and the problem stayed in the same location but thought I would mention it. When was the last time you changed the bedbar adjuster springs? The grass is thrown to the right and the increased volume on the rear two is too much for the old spring. Easy test tighten them right up, but make sure you set it up this way and not just change it while on the machine. Good luck and please keep us informed.



  18. Roland McPhearson
    Roland McPhearson avatar
    9 posts
    5/11/2017 12:05 PM
    Ryan Shea said: Is there anyone that has had these similar issues?


    Yeah, send me a PM and I'll give details.



  19. Mark Van Lienden
    Mark Van Lienden avatar
    14 posts
    5/11/2017 4:05 PM
    I have seen that kind of striping due to clippings.I forget exactly why front reels sending clippings to the back. Seems unnoticeable the next day.Does yours look like the grass that has been cut is physically different? There was also a situation where the extra clippings in the back put more load on those reels causing them to rotate slower effecting the cut.



  20. Ryan Shea
    Ryan Shea avatar
    0 posts
    5/15/2017 8:05 AM
    Mark Van Lienden, CGCS said: I have seen that kind of striping due to clippings.I forget exactly why front reels sending clippings to the back. Seems unnoticeable the next day.Does yours look like the grass that has been cut is physically different? There was also a situation where the extra clippings in the back put more load on those reels causing them to rotate slower effecting the cut.


    After we make a pass it actually looks like the turf is not mowing at the same height. Almost like the bedknife is standing the grass up but not cutting as well.



  21. Clifton Brock
    Clifton Brock avatar
    0 posts
    8/18/2017 7:08 AM
    One thing that I found that help ours is to make sure the compensator springs on the front of the reel are all the same . I believe that they should be at 5" in length. Good luck. We also found that the turf conditions and growth also affect the appearance as well. What type of grass do you have on your fairways?



  22. Terry Smith_2
    Terry Smith_2 avatar
    0 posts
    8/21/2017 6:08 AM
    We just got new 5410's this year and had the problem. Talked to our local Toro service manager. He had just come back from a course in Oregon that had the problem. He told me to release all of the spring tension on the rear reels. I did it and no more problem. He said it is common with reels that have roller brushes installed.

    Terry L. Smith
    Druids Glen Golf Course
    Covington, WA



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