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Ryder Cup course set up

12 posts
  1. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/1/2012 11:10 AM
    Almost put this in the 19th hole sports section but because of what I want to ask, thought maybe here it would be good discussion fodder. I do agree I look at Phil in a better light also. He just got beat by some good shots. Greens, tees and fairways just looked great and looked like they played great too. But I would really like to talk about the roughs, mainly the height of cut.

    My thoughts are, do we go back to cutting rough at that lower height? Anyone know how high it was?

    I thought it was great especially around the greens, like I heard on the telecast, it gives those guys more options. I also know it makes it easier on our higher handicap players. We could see balls in the rough areas, wouldn't that be better for the higher handicappers also and help speed play?

    My biggest question will be how do we achieve that, now that many of us have gone to rotary rough mowers? I know we set ours up to 2.5" or 3" (I need to double check) partly to avoid scalping around our green and tee banks. I do know I am going to use this argument to help add a triples reel mower back into our fleet to do our green banks. I've also wondered about digging our blitzer units out of the weeds as well.

    Would really like to hear others thoughts on this issue too.

    Thanks!

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  2. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    10/1/2012 5:10 PM
    My rotaries are currently at 1.5" and it works just fine. I will take them down some before we overseed and then mow the Rye at 2".

    Regards,

    Steve



  3. Hardy Andrew
    Hardy Andrew avatar
    10/2/2012 6:10 AM
    We lowered to 1.75" this year from 2.25" and its been a huge success. We were able to eliminate the intermediate cut as a result of the lack of transition from fairways at .500". My rough cutters are finding less balls, so that must mean the players are finding them. I may even look at 1.50" for next year. Semi-private club with 400 members.



  4. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    10/2/2012 6:10 AM
    The tournaments this year have featured "brown" turf and lower-cut rough. I hope this is a trend to continue. You know the correlation between TV golf and and our courses, monkey see monkey do. I've never understood the idea of penal golf. Personally, I like to have fun when I play. I know it's weird. But I just never caught on to looking for my ball at the bottom of 3" rough for 5 minutes after missing the 12 yard wide sloped fairway that stimps an 8.

    I could go on for hours on this topic but suffice it to say the game set up and how it is played must adapt.



  5. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/2/2012 6:10 AM
    Clay,

    You said the word I was thinking, FUN, despite the pressure, those guys when they hit those good shots, chips etc, that was fun to watch. I thought we still saw some miscues as well, so the course and game is still a challenge even for those guys.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  6. Justin VanLanduit
    Justin VanLanduit avatar
    0 posts
    10/2/2012 7:10 AM
    Believe rough at Ryder was 1.25" from fairway to the ropes, outside the ropes 0" is at was very dry and the spectators trampled the turf to dust. Sure Curtis will be looking at some overseeding there. I have mixed feelings about the rough as I'm sure a lot of people do. One should be rewarded for hitting the fairway vs someone in the rough, that's part of golf. If we are mowing rough at a short height it does make for quicker rounds, more fun, etc... But does it take away from quality shots off the tee? Shorter mowed rough would correlate to better lies sometimes better than if you were in the fairway. Now if your fairways are primo and there is no chance for a bad lie then there is a difference. As a good player I feel I should have an advantage if I'm in the fairway and the other are in the rough, but can see how shorter rough can make things more enjoyable. We mow at 2.5 here and I still get a good amount of grips towards it.



  7. Larry Allan
    Larry Allan avatar
    0 posts
    10/2/2012 7:10 AM
    With Johnny holding the microphone I had to turn down the sound but did I hear that The American Captain is the one who decides course setup ie cutting heights etc?



  8. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/2/2012 10:10 AM
    Red, that is true, it was even mentioned starting back with Zinger as captain, the US started getting the Superintendents involved with course set up to benefit the home team. Something they said had been happening on the Euro side for much longer.

    Justin, I get where your coming from, but I wonder with the new groove rule, the higher rough isn't as important now, they aren't able to spin the ball out of the rough as much, if anything, I think the new grooves have helped the pros put less spin on the ball out of the fairway letting them control those shots better, then spinning the ball back off the green. But for hacks like us, is it that much of an advantage, say in 1.5 rough?

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  9. Steve Nelson
    Steve Nelson avatar
    0 posts
    10/2/2012 10:10 AM
    Here at the lowly muni, where everyone from 9 to 90 plays, high rough has always been considered an aberration of the game. The concept of penal rough (along with dense tree lines) was most likely invented by low handicappers PO'd about losing a hole on net to a high handicapper.



  10. Keith Fellenstein
    Keith Fellenstein avatar
    0 posts
    10/2/2012 11:10 AM
    I suppose it many cases it comes down to what you are growing and where...fescue and bluegrass takes a real beating around here..wouldn't be much left if we kept it that short year round. I prefer longer, fuller, more consistent rough to shorter, spotty, inconsistent weeds.



  11. Ronald Conard
    Ronald Conard avatar
    4 posts
    10/2/2012 11:10 AM
    Keith Fellenstein said: I suppose it many cases it comes down to what you are growing and where...fescue and bluegrass takes a real beating around here..wouldn't be much left if we kept it that short year round. I prefer longer, fuller, more consistent rough to shorter, spotty, inconsistent weeds.


    I saw research some years ago on height of cut and weed percentage in turf. This was in cool season turf. The results were pretty staggering. Needless-to-say a height of cut over 3.0 " had far less weed invasion than 2.0" or 1.5". So as with everything there is an upside and a downside. The upside of a higher cut is less weeds, less chemicals, lower costs. Downside is maybe less revenue and beat up golfers.



  12. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/2/2012 2:10 PM
    That would probably be our biggest concern, the cool season rough we have here in the transition zone, with not much irrigation. I wonder about taking some of the USGA approach to a graduated rough, of course there would be more of equipment or at least training needs, or maybe some playing with heights of cut entering into the summer season, (of course this past year that would have been March). I did see some great cool season roughs this summer in our area, I'm guessing they had great irrigation coverage, not a lot of traffic, and a little higher height of cut as well? ( i know a couple of spots on our course where irrigation coverage is good and no traffic we saw some too). Then I would also have to deal with bermuda spreading out there, (of course there is a lot out there now). I do know we are spraying some vessel now and the cost per acre is under $20, maybe down as low as $11 depending on my rate.

    I think fertilization would be a big part of it too, when I was up in northern Indiana, we fertilized our roughs pretty heavy my first season as I was trying to get some grub damage healed. We mowed at 2" and had decent irrigation and natural rain fall. Had Dr. Riecher from Purdue come up to look at the course and asked me what we used for pre-emergent, I said we didn't, we couldn't afford it, so my clue was fertilizer is a pretty good pre-emergent? I do think our biggest problem here is lack of fertilizer in roughs, we haven't done it since I've been here and doubt it had been done before that.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

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