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Thought this was a pretty decent article

17 posts
  1. Robert Crockett
    Robert Crockett avatar
    4 posts
  2. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    3/16/2012 9:03 AM
    Not good, but an excellent article.



  3. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    3/17/2012 2:03 PM
    Agreed. A great lesson in life.



  4. Keith Pegg
    Keith Pegg avatar
    0 posts
    3/17/2012 10:03 PM
    A very good item for sure, I hope everyone reads it.

    Keith, Zama Japan



  5. McDaniel Gregory B
    McDaniel Gregory B avatar
    3/17/2012 10:03 PM
    I had read that when it first came out last year. Yes, a very good article. Some points as it applies to me. I am no longer in the golf business. You will find out who your friends are and that you don't have as many as you thought. For me, I had always wanted to come home, but as far as the golf business goes I remembered very quickly why I left home in the first place! I always thought that if I had to spend so much time at work, I could just work 2 jobs and be responsible for myself. The problem is, when you are not the boss, you actually have to work! When you are the boss you just have to be there. If you don't feel well, you can hang out in the office all day and leave early. Heck, even if you do feel well, you can do the same thing if you so desire. If you are an employee, you have to tough it out or stay home and not get paid! My first superintendent's job required me to be there everyday, but I could do basically whatever I chose to do. I found out from what I was told about my successor that I could have done much less and gotten away with much more, but I was married with children and he was 22. If you asked a current member, they would not even be able to remember me either. That's the thanks you get for busting your butt in this business!
    I think the number one thing I learned about my career loss is that you should never make a move unless you know all the facts especially if you are in a comfortable position. The other thing is to ask for what you want. Show your value and your worth and ask for it. It doesn't hurt to try and if you get it, you will be much happier for it. I never asked for a raise, so I rarely got one and if I did, it only kept up with last years 1k insurance premium increase and a little chunk of inflation. Is it right that you are good and that you learn every year and never get considered for the big job while some 28 year old assistant gets it? Of course it is not, but that is the way of the world. The brow beatable factor always wins out over real knowledge and experience. They will probably get theirs someday too. The worst thing is that when you are out, it is very difficult to get back in. Employers are wary of your reasons for being unemployed even if your place went under because your personal credit cards were maxed out. You get the added benefit of bad credit, so that bad job becomes the gift that just keeps on giving! I would love to go back 6 years and not make that decision, too bad there is no time machine. Of course I was very unhappy at the time and took the first thing that came along after interviewing an average of twice per year and seeing the aforementioned age group selected most of the time. I got to experience the added frustration of seeing every good job I already knew about advertised on GCSAA ERS, while as we all know almost no jobs are ever advertised at all. It's a hard career, but having been out and having to actually work for a few years, I would be a much better superintendent and certainly a much happier one if ever given the opportunity. So, you guys who have a job doing what you love, be happy, you could have to really "work" some mundane job 10 to 12 hours a day like me for less than half the pay!!



  6. Robert Crockett
    Robert Crockett avatar
    4 posts
    3/18/2012 8:03 PM
    Gregory McDaniel, CGCS said: I had read that when it first came out last year. Yes, a very good article. Some points as it applies to me. I am no longer in the golf business. You will find out who your friends are and that you don't have as many as you thought. For me, I had always wanted to come home, but as far as the golf business goes I remembered very quickly why I left home in the first place! I always thought that if I had to spend so much time at work, I could just work 2 jobs and be responsible for myself. The problem is, when you are not the boss, you actually have to work! When you are the boss you just have to be there. If you don't feel well, you can hang out in the office all day and leave early. Heck, even if you do feel well, you can do the same thing if you so desire. If you are an employee, you have to tough it out or stay home and not get paid! My first superintendent's job required me to be there everyday, but I could do basically whatever I chose to do. I found out from what I was told about my successor that I could have done much less and gotten away with much more, but I was married with children and he was 22. If you asked a current member, they would not even be able to remember me either. That's the thanks you get for busting your butt in this business!
    I think the number one thing I learned about my career loss is that you should never make a move unless you know all the facts especially if you are in a comfortable position. The other thing is to ask for what you want. Show your value and your worth and ask for it. It doesn't hurt to try and if you get it, you will be much happier for it. I never asked for a raise, so I rarely got one and if I did, it only kept up with last years 1k insurance premium increase and a little chunk of inflation. Is it right that you are good and that you learn every year and never get considered for the big job while some 28 year old assistant gets it? Of course it is not, but that is the way of the world. The brow beatable factor always wins out over real knowledge and experience. They will probably get theirs someday too. The worst thing is that when you are out, it is very difficult to get back in. Employers are wary of your reasons for being unemployed even if your place went under because your personal credit cards were maxed out. You get the added benefit of bad credit, so that bad job becomes the gift that just keeps on giving! I would love to go back 6 years and not make that decision, too bad there is no time machine. Of course I was very unhappy at the time and took the first thing that came along after interviewing an average of twice per year and seeing the aforementioned age group selected most of the time. I got to experience the added frustration of seeing every good job I already knew about advertised on GCSAA ERS, while as we all know almost no jobs are ever advertised at all. It's a hard career, but having been out and having to actually work for a few years, I would be a much better superintendent and certainly a much happier one if ever given the opportunity. So, you guys who have a job doing what you love, be happy, you could have to really "work" some mundane job 10 to 12 hours a day like me for less than half the pay!!

    i will take those profound words of wisdom to heart SIR....God Bless and Thank You :D



  7. Anthony Nysse
    Anthony Nysse avatar
    1 posts
    3/19/2012 8:03 AM
    "My" golf course. I have never understood, when talking with Superintendents, with them when they talk to the members at the course theyre employed at, that Superintendent always describe things as possessive-MY golf course, MY greens, MY fairway mowers, MY bunkers, MY...
    Most members of clubs or owners don't care to hear this and I'm glad that this article points this out.



  8. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    3/19/2012 11:03 AM
    So the author and you are of the opinion that we're not smart enough to distinguish between physical ownership and pride of workmanship (also called "ownership)? I've got some news for both of you, if you don't "own" it, you don't belong there.

    I worked on Coast Guard boats for over 20 years, I never owned a one of them, but they were all mine.



    Regards,

    Steve



  9. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    3/19/2012 11:03 AM
    Good point Steve,

    I know I sometimes cringe when the golf pro I work with, (not here but in the past) introduces me as "his" superintendent, I know what the article is getting at, but I agree with your point (Steve).

    I guess the ideal situation is to find a way to show pride and ownership without making others cringe (best way I can think to say it.) Maybe when it's the course or equipment, it is "ours". When its staff or people, I try to say "This is so and so who I work with, he is the golf pro here at our facility" or something similar.

    Just my opinion though.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  10. Keith Lamb
    Keith Lamb avatar
    3 posts
    3/19/2012 12:03 PM
    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: So the author and you are of the opinion that we're not smart enough to distinguish between physical ownership and pride of workmanship (also called "ownership)? I've got some news for both of you, if you don't "own" it, you don't belong there.

    I worked on Coast Guard boats for over 20 years, I never owned a one of them, but they were all mine.



    Regards,

    Steve



    YA!



  11. Anthony Nysse
    Anthony Nysse avatar
    1 posts
    3/19/2012 2:03 PM
    I assumed the Steve would reply and I understand where hes/you're coming from. Superintendent to Superintendent-Yes, I see no problem with this type of interaction and description. But, Superintendent to Member-It's not our grass, not our equipment, not our this or that. When a decision at the club is made that we may not agree with, what do we say? "At the end of the day, it's THEIR course or it's HIS (owner) course and I do what they chose" That being said, it's their equipment, their turf, etc.
    I understand where you're coming from, Steve and I do not disagree with it for a minute. I think that it takes on a different meaning depending on who a Superintendent is speaking with. In the case of this article, I agree with the author.
    And being a tax payer, you actually do own a small piece of those Coast Guard boats, so it is yours! ;)



  12. Keith Pegg
    Keith Pegg avatar
    0 posts
    3/19/2012 6:03 PM
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said: Good point Steve,

    I know I sometimes cringe when the golf pro I work with, (not here but in the past) introduces me as "his" superintendent, I know what the article is getting at, but I agree with your point (Steve).

    I guess the ideal situation is to find a way to show pride and ownership without making others cringe (best way I can think to say it.) Maybe when it's the course or equipment, it is "ours". When its staff or people, I try to say "This is so and so who I work with, he is the golf pro here at our facility" or something similar.

    Just my opinion though.

    Mel


    Mel,in 40 years this has happened so many times to me, that the job I am at now I told the Director of Golf that it bothered me and he agreed to remember that, of course when I am not around he will call me "his Superintendent", and in turn I call him "my golf Professional". We both laugh about it, so it all works out in the end. We both have a name for the boss above him, not printable in GCSAA. He calls us "his boys", we both like that one.

    Keith
    Zama Golf



  13. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    3/19/2012 6:03 PM
    I am good with being called "his superintendent". I just want to be somebody's superintendent! ;)



  14. Robert Crockett
    Robert Crockett avatar
    4 posts
    3/19/2012 8:03 PM
    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: So the author and you are of the opinion that we're not smart enough to distinguish between physical ownership and pride of workmanship (also called "ownership)? I've got some news for both of you, if you don't "own" it, you don't belong there.

    I worked on Coast Guard boats for over 20 years, I never owned a one of them, but they were all mine.



    Regards,

    Steve

    All of MY greens are mine....to care for...like my kids....I have a few black sheeps also.....finicky ones...really good ones....and a couple I would just like to get rid of and start over :lol: Names for our equipment...ect. Even our golf pro....I can't write those or I'll get in trouble ;)



  15. T Storie
    T Storie avatar
    0 posts
    3/20/2012 1:03 PM
    Gregory McDaniel, CGCS said: I had read that when it first came out last year. Yes, a very good article. Some points as it applies to me. I am no longer in the golf business. You will find out who your friends are and that you don't have as many as you thought. For me, I had always wanted to come home, but as far as the golf business goes I remembered very quickly why I left home in the first place! I always thought that if I had to spend so much time at work, I could just work 2 jobs and be responsible for myself. The problem is, when you are not the boss, you actually have to work! When you are the boss you just have to be there. If you don't feel well, you can hang out in the office all day and leave early. Heck, even if you do feel well, you can do the same thing if you so desire. If you are an employee, you have to tough it out or stay home and not get paid! My first superintendent's job required me to be there everyday, but I could do basically whatever I chose to do. I found out from what I was told about my successor that I could have done much less and gotten away with much more, but I was married with children and he was 22. If you asked a current member, they would not even be able to remember me either. That's the thanks you get for busting your butt in this business!
    I think the number one thing I learned about my career loss is that you should never make a move unless you know all the facts especially if you are in a comfortable position. The other thing is to ask for what you want. Show your value and your worth and ask for it. It doesn't hurt to try and if you get it, you will be much happier for it. I never asked for a raise, so I rarely got one and if I did, it only kept up with last years 1k insurance premium increase and a little chunk of inflation. Is it right that you are good and that you learn every year and never get considered for the big job while some 28 year old assistant gets it? Of course it is not, but that is the way of the world. The brow beatable factor always wins out over real knowledge and experience. They will probably get theirs someday too. The worst thing is that when you are out, it is very difficult to get back in. Employers are wary of your reasons for being unemployed even if your place went under because your personal credit cards were maxed out. You get the added benefit of bad credit, so that bad job becomes the gift that just keeps on giving! I would love to go back 6 years and not make that decision, too bad there is no time machine. Of course I was very unhappy at the time and took the first thing that came along after interviewing an average of twice per year and seeing the aforementioned age group selected most of the time. I got to experience the added frustration of seeing every good job I already knew about advertised on GCSAA ERS, while as we all know almost no jobs are ever advertised at all. It's a hard career, but having been out and having to actually work for a few years, I would be a much better superintendent and certainly a much happier one if ever given the opportunity. So, you guys who have a job doing what you love, be happy, you could have to really "work" some mundane job 10 to 12 hours a day like me for less than half the pay!!


    Greg: hey man email me your contact information, if you don't mind. I tried a few different times to get a hold of you in the past couple of years to no avail. I know of nothing right now but for future reference. Junior @ Centennial Valley Conway, Ar turfguy2@sbcglobal.net



  16. Anthony Nysse
    Anthony Nysse avatar
    1 posts
    3/21/2012 8:03 AM
    Robert Crockett said:
    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: So the author and you are of the opinion that we're not smart enough to distinguish between physical ownership and pride of workmanship (also called "ownership)? I've got some news for both of you, if you don't "own" it, you don't belong there.

    I worked on Coast Guard boats for over 20 years, I never owned a one of them, but they were all mine.



    Regards,

    Steve

    All of MY greens are mine....to care for...like my kids....I have a few black sheeps also.....finicky ones...really good ones....and a couple I would just like to get rid of and start over :lol: Names for our equipment...ect. Even our golf pro....I can't write those or I'll get in trouble ;)



    Well played!!



  17. Joshua Hicks
    Joshua Hicks avatar
    0 posts
    3/23/2012 12:03 PM
    They are certainly "MY" responsibility so I have no issue calling them "MY" greens or whatever. I understand that I don't own them and i present plans, budgets etc for approval to the powers that be but i still take ownership of them. At least that is what my parents always told me to do when i was growing up "take ownership" of your work. Just my thoughts.



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