Forum Groups

 

Forums / Being a superintendent / Unemployment

Unemployment

44 posts
  1. Distel Robert J
    Distel Robert J avatar
    9/20/2011 11:09 AM
    How many of you are unemployed right now or have been in the past couple years?



  2. Kinney Brian
    Kinney Brian avatar
    9/20/2011 2:09 PM
    Not I, I am blessed to have gotten back into supt role back in 2006 and still here....just hired an assistant who was out of work for over a year, sent over 100 applications out for various golf jobs over that time and could not get hired anywhere with a good resume and experience. It is a tough cookie out there right now man.



  3. Rosenthal Gregg
    Rosenthal Gregg avatar
    9/20/2011 4:09 PM
    I have been unemployed since may, I am fighting a battle with Complex Partial Seizures (epileptic seizures). I have been trying to find a position (had been a superintendent for over 25 years) just to stay busy, but with no luck. I had to relocate to live with my family as I could no longer live alone as I was. I am going to have surgery to hopefully repair damaged spot on my Temporal lobe where my seizures all originate from, I am going to Tampa (U of South Florida/Tampa Hospital) to see the surgeon and set a date tomorrow am, finally! I have talked to many and sent out more resumes than I can count, it is a difficult time, but my situation is even more difficult as I am restricted from driving for now. If all goes well by the first of the year I will be fully recovered and able to go back to work unrestricted.....70% probability, without this procedure I would most likely be disabled for the rest of my life. It pretty much sucks to be me right now.............

    Gregg R



  4. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    9/20/2011 4:09 PM
    I have been working for the past 10+ years at the same place. I have been unemployed twice in my career and it took me three months each time to find a job. Each time I was willing and able to relocate. Each time I spent 50 hours per week looking and visiting working people. I asked for and received meetings with people who were not looking for employees. One time I received a job from a company who was not advertising their opening and this time I found my job in the paper - a municipal job. Golf course superintendents are capable of managing multi-million dollar operations of all sorts. If you are willing to consider project manager, fleet manager, warehouse manager, on and on, etc. ... then there are jobs out there for you.



  5. Jon Kindlesparger
    Jon Kindlesparger avatar
    0 posts
    9/20/2011 7:09 PM
    I was 'let go' on August 9th due to budget cuts, and started a new job on September 13the. 15K a year less and a horrible golf course with not much budget. The course is only 32 miles away but I'll have to move if I keep it. My old Durango only gets 13 mpg and it's costing me about a hundred a week to drive it. It pretty much sucks but I am happy to have a job.

    SE Kansas grass grower



  6. Satterwhite Kerry
    Satterwhite Kerry avatar
    9/21/2011 9:09 AM
    I have not been a Superintendent since 2008. My position as Director was being eliminated so I got out of the industry for awhile so I wouldn't be unemployed. I am currently working three hours from "home" and separated from my family. Usually I'm not gone for more than 3 days at a time but I did have a couple of stretches this spring where I didn't get home for a couple of weeks.

    I was a Superintendent for over 20 years, but at 50 I am endangered species. I know 3 or 4 guys that have already lost their jobs this year, and a couple of more that tell me they are pretty sure they will be let go before the end of the year.

    My best advice is to look outside the industry. Most Superintendents have a diverse set of skills and extensive management experience. Combine that with the work ethic that is required in this industry and you can market yourself as a viable candidate for many positions.



  7. Randall Boudinot
    Randall Boudinot avatar
    4 posts
    9/21/2011 1:09 PM
    After 18 years at the same course I was let go by new owners in 2009. It took 13 months to find another Superintendent position, and I had to moved from Ohio to Tennessee to get it. In April of this year new management came in and let me go in July of this year. I just got a Superintendent position in Georgia and will be moving there in a couple of days. If your out of work stay positive and be willing to relocate.

    Randall Boudinot
    Lion Golf Club
    Bremen, Georgia



  8. Distel Robert J
    Distel Robert J avatar
    9/21/2011 3:09 PM
    I got let go after 18 years at the same place. A private upper end club,in Minnesota. Ive been a superintendent for some 25 years now, and been in the industry since I was a kid. Its driving me crazy not having a job. Or a place to go everyday! I have worked since I was a kid.

    Trying not to have to leave the industry. I am hopeful but discouraged all at the same time. And my goose dog Hank is getting fat.



  9. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    9/21/2011 4:09 PM
    I hear of all of these guys out of work and know many of them. But, when I advertised on GCSAA for a $26,000 a year 2nd Assistant job a few months back, I received a whopping 1 resume. No fresh out of college kid, no out of work Assistants, no out of work Superintendents and no spray tech or irrigation tech looking to move up. The only resume I got was from an out of work Assistant Golf Pro that just needed a job. Was it the posting? The pay? The location? Me? I don't know. But we ended up filling the position internally by bumping up one of our better guys. Like others said, there are many jobs out there if you take down the tunnel vision and be willing to get out of your comfort zone. Like others, I moved away from my family ten years ago with a two year plan to move back. Doesn't look like that will be happening anytime soon.



  10. Brent Venenga
    Brent Venenga avatar
    0 posts
    9/26/2011 1:09 PM
    Andrew, I agree with you I've looked for people to fill positions for some time now and am unable to get them filled. I do admit it's not a 6 figure income with benefits but it's a paying job but still no takers. When I visit with college students they want to almost get paid more than what I make.



  11. Homme David R
    Homme David R avatar
    9/26/2011 9:09 PM
    Andrew, it was the PAY. 26 K per year is poverty line. Plus you are going to expect a fair bit of OT for that illustrious "asst." title.

    I don't mean this as a knock to you, just an indication of this business. It rarely pays until reaching the top and even then, some superintendents don't make a great paycheck.

    Get into landscaping. I have a side business for 2 yrs now and I employ 2 full time guys. In my area, it is capable of equalling or surpassing my golf salary in about 8-10 months. Look at the diversity involved.

    Decks, fencing, hard landscape, maintenance, spraying, irrigation, pressure washing, gutter and window cleaning and so on. There is a large array of work that every single homeowner needs and with the aging population, the work will be there. Everyone who is a capable superintendent can do virtually anything in landscape services. As with any business, it is competitive, but anyone who has put in the time and done the grind of being assistant and then superintendent, can do this.

    JMO. If I am one day relieved of my current duties, I will take over my business and keep my lifestyle intact.

    Dave Homme
    Falls Resort



  12. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    9/27/2011 6:09 AM
    dhomme said: Andrew, it was the PAY. 26 K per year is poverty line. Plus you are going to expect a fair bit of OT for that illustrious "asst." title.


    Dave Homme
    Falls Resort


    Dave,

    Although I agree with you that the pay may be on the low side, you also have to consider the area. We have 3 bedroom houses that rent here for $500/month. Our starting wage for a guy with no experience is $8.00/hour. So, yes, $26,000 may not be very good in your neck of the woods, but it's well above the poverty line here.

    I was surprised that I didn't get any responses. You know as well as I do that there are guys graduating right now and not finding any Assistant jobs and taking spray tech and irrigation tech jobs for much less money to just get their foot in the door and gain experience. I wasn't looking for a lifer, just someone I could count on for a few years before they moved on. We offer a great benefit package and pay for a lot of things that most courses don't for their Assistants, offer lots of opportunity to gain experience and have plenty of room to move up.

    And for your OT remark....my whole staff averages about 41 hours a week, including Assistants. That's it. OT is a big waste of money in my eyes, and if you are constantly having OT on your payroll, than you as a manager aren't doing a good enough job scheduling.



  13. Homme David R
    Homme David R avatar
    9/27/2011 9:09 AM
    Andy, my resume is on the way.

    Dave



  14. Robert Crockett
    Robert Crockett avatar
    4 posts
    9/28/2011 8:09 AM
    andyjorg said:
    dhomme said: Andrew, it was the PAY. 26 K per year is poverty line. Plus you are going to expect a fair bit of OT for that illustrious "asst." title.


    Dave Homme
    Falls Resort


    Dave,

    Although I agree with you that the pay may be on the low side, you also have to consider the area. We have 3 bedroom houses that rent here for $500/month. Our starting wage for a guy with no experience is $8.00/hour. So, yes, $26,000 may not be very good in your neck of the woods, but it's well above the poverty line here.

    I was surprised that I didn't get any responses. You know as well as I do that there are guys graduating right now and not finding any Assistant jobs and taking spray tech and irrigation tech jobs for much less money to just get their foot in the door and gain experience. I wasn't looking for a lifer, just someone I could count on for a few years before they moved on. We offer a great benefit package and pay for a lot of things that most courses don't for their Assistants, offer lots of opportunity to gain experience and have plenty of room to move up.

    And for your OT remark....my whole staff averages about 41 hours a week, including Assistants. That's it. OT is a big waste of money in my eyes, and if you are constantly having OT on your payroll, than you as a manager aren't doing a good enough job scheduling.

    I agree with the pay scale....you HAVE to start somewhere AND work your way up...That's just the way it is, and always has been.



  15. James Smith
    James Smith avatar
    113 posts
    10/4/2011 1:10 PM
    andyjorg said:
    dhomme said: Andrew, it was the PAY. 26 K per year is poverty line. Plus you are going to expect a fair bit of OT for that illustrious "asst." title.


    Dave Homme
    Falls Resort


    Dave,


    And for your OT remark....my whole staff averages about 41 hours a week, including Assistants. That's it. OT is a big waste of money in my eyes, and if you are constantly having OT on your payroll, than you as a manager aren't doing a good enough job scheduling.


    I take offense to this overtime remark. lets look at it from a different point of view shall we?

    Most of my guys at my course make an average of $10.50 hr and live alone and rent around here is about $800 per month. If it was not for them getting about 7 hours a week overtime, they could not make ends meet. So do I run them down the street because my club cannot afford to increase their hourly wage? I would have to add a few more workers to do their weekly duties if I sent them home one day a week so now I have more workers to pay or have to deal with a couple of part timers who may not be happy with such few hours.

    My Assistant makes about $29,000 a year but he works about 50 weekends a year to earn that (his choice) and I generally make him take the other two off and pay him for it just to get him away from here for a few weekends.
    yes my club pays extra for the 7 hours a weekend of overtime for my crew to take care of their course, so I staff one less person a year in order to make up for it, but what I get is 6 crewmen who have been in the business for 7+ years who are reliable and can handle anything that may come up and upkeep the course in damn good shape.

    So I guess I am a bad manager by your standards but to my crew I am a person who cares about them being able to pay their bills.

    Maybe you should look outside you box before taking it for granted that overtime can be a bad thing. IT is only bad when you are a salaried employee.



  16. Homme David R
    Homme David R avatar
    10/4/2011 2:10 PM
    Lucky you that the guys you offer OT to actually appreciate it. I agree, paying OT is not always wasted money. My site is often conducive to OT being effectively cheaper than a return to the task the next day. My 6th green for example is about 4km from my shop. So in my case, that varies job to job and day to day.

    I guess some things depend on the staff. I had a guy this season making 18.50 per hour that would not bite at working a 45 hour week. I did the math for this person, showing how I could not increase the hourly rate, but could justify this little bit of OT which would have resulted in a take home increase of about $400 per month. This individual preferred to play lots of golf, work 37-40 hrs per week and complain about not having enough money.

    Stick with what you are doing, cause if you have that kind of loyalty at that rate of pay, you are doing something right.

    Dave Homme
    Falls Resort



  17. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    10/4/2011 5:10 PM
    Randini,

    6 guys x 7 hours OT each week at $15.25/hour = $640.50 a week in pay.

    $10.50/hour for regular pay x 40 hours per week = $420 a week in pay.

    So, you could hire 1.5 full time employees instead of paying OT.

    I think I'd rather have the extra full time guy and part timer to help with daily duties than pay OT. Especially if you are always complaining about being shorthanded. Those two extra hands in the morning set up would go a long way, prior to play when work is the most efficient. My opinion.

    If a Superintendent constantly complains about not having enough people to get the job done, but willingly paying OT each week for his crew because he is concerned about their personal well being, will soon find himself out of a job and having to worry about his own well being. If you want to pay OT to "help them out", so be it. Just be careful when you complain about being short handed. Accountants don't like OT. This isn't a knock on you, so don't take it personally.

    Stating the job is a 40 hour a week job during the employment offer sets the expectation. If they don't want it, they can find another job. If they happen to get OT during aerification, etc...consider it a perk.

    When they are getting the OT, ask yourself if you would pay the same person $15.25 an hour to do the job that they normally do for $10.50.



  18. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/4/2011 5:10 PM
    I think I am going to ask for a raise!!! All of you guys pay pretty well.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  19. Corey Eastwood
    Corey Eastwood avatar
    82 posts
    10/5/2011 11:10 AM
    Andy

    Factor in benefits including vacation, holidays and sick leave plus workman's comp. the numbers change.

    Corey Eastwood CGCS, Stockton Golf & CC, Retired

  20. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    10/5/2011 4:10 PM
    corey said: Andy

    Factor in benefits including vacation, holidays and sick leave plus workman's comp. the numbers change.


    Okay, our burden is about 35%. So that basically gives you one extra guy, or 15% more help based on a 6 man crew. How many times have you said to yourself "man, if I had just one more guy....".



  21. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    10/6/2011 10:10 AM
    We could all use one more.



  22. Stuebs Greg
    Stuebs Greg avatar
    10/10/2011 11:10 AM
    Last year my club was sold to a group of existing members. I was relieved at that time that I still had a job working for them. After working at the same course for 18 years and 30 years in the industry, I was let go because the new owners decided to "Go in a different direction." I am 48 now and they already hired a 25 year old assistant from another course to take my place. A club email to the membership, released an hour of my firing, stated this.

    Since having my life revolve around whatever the weather throws at us, meeting demands of Greens Committees and golfers, and basically putting my kids and family in second place over work, I question if this is a worthwhile career. Missing spending time with my older kids and being part of their lives is a hefty price to pay, just so golfers have a nice place to play and the satisfaction that comes from having a nice course. I know these were decisions I made, but the desire to be able to support the family is a strong one. Unfortunately it becomes way out of balance. I am now thinking of leaving this crazy, unpredictable industry. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to "punch out" once in a while? Granted that in this economy nothing is stable, perhaps it's time to rethink this and prioritize while there's still time and kids at home. We'll see what doors open and pray for the best.



  23. Sean Hoolehan
    Sean Hoolehan avatar
    0 posts
    10/11/2011 7:10 AM
    gregstue said:

    Since having my life revolve around whatever the weather throws at us, meeting demands of Greens Committees and golfers, and basically putting my kids and family in second place over work, I question if this is a worthwhile career. Missing spending time with my older kids and being part of their lives is a hefty price to pay, just so golfers have a nice place to play and the satisfaction that comes from having a nice course. I know these were decisions I made, but the desire to be able to support the family is a strong one. Unfortunately it becomes way out of balance. I am now thinking of leaving this crazy, unpredictable industry. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to "punch out" once in a while? Granted that in this economy nothing is stable, perhaps it's time to rethink this and prioritize while there's still time and kids at home. We'll see what doors open and pray for the best.


    Hang in there man. I am sorry this has happened to you. You have lots to offer your next employer. I will keep you in my prayers.

    Sean



  24. Larry Allan
    Larry Allan avatar
    0 posts
    10/11/2011 2:10 PM
    gregstue said: Last year my club was sold to a group of existing members. I was relieved at that time that I still had a job working for them. After working at the same course for 18 years and 30 years in the industry, I was let go because the new owners decided to "Go in a different direction." I am 48 now and they already hired a 25 year old assistant from another course to take my place. A club email to the membership, released an hour of my firing, stated this.

    Since having my life revolve around whatever the weather throws at us, meeting demands of Greens Committees and golfers, and basically putting my kids and family in second place over work, I question if this is a worthwhile career. Missing spending time with my older kids and being part of their lives is a hefty price to pay, just so golfers have a nice place to play and the satisfaction that comes from having a nice course. I know these were decisions I made, but the desire to be able to support the family is a strong one. Unfortunately it becomes way out of balance. I am now thinking of leaving this crazy, unpredictable industry. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to "punch out" once in a while? Granted that in this economy nothing is stable, perhaps it's time to rethink this and prioritize while there's still time and kids at home. We'll see what doors open and pray for the best.

    Did you write that? Or did they post it in your name? It was unclear
    I would hope that if they wrote it, you take some kind of action



  25. Stuebs Greg
    Stuebs Greg avatar
    10/13/2011 10:10 PM
    Red,
    I see how you could have misunderstood my post. The club's email (sent an hour after my release)to the membership stated that they had already hired a new superintendent to take my place. The remaining paragraph in my post was simply venting on this forum (not in club email) what's going on in my head since losing work. I apologize for the lack of clarity.
    Greg Stuebs



  26. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    10/14/2011 6:10 AM
    gregstue said: Red,
    I see how you could have misunderstood my post. The club's email (sent an hour after my release)to the membership stated that they had already hired a new superintendent to take my place. The remaining paragraph in my post was simply venting on this forum (not in club email) what's going on in my head since losing work. I apologize for the lack of clarity.
    Greg Stuebs


    I have a supt friend who is our age and just experienced the same thing a week ago. Golf Course Superintendents have the ability to do any job that involves management of resources and leadership of people. I have been "released" twice in my career and both times I was offered good jobs that were not in this industry.

    (warning: non sequitur) As a kid I had a neighbor who made his money in the trucking business. When he retired he bought a beautiful truck with a huge sleeper that he and his wife would use to travel the country carrying loads to pay for their adventures. He invited me to look inside and told me about his life as a trucker. I loved it and told my father about it. My Dad was furious and did not want me to be a trucker. I still want to be a trucker!



  27. Brent Venenga
    Brent Venenga avatar
    0 posts
    10/14/2011 7:10 AM
    Scott, A friend and I were just talking about that last week. He said he was sick of working for other people and was going to buy his own truck and drive for himself. My neighbor drives for himself and is happy as can be.



  28. Matthew MacAskill
    Matthew MacAskill avatar
    0 posts
    10/14/2011 9:10 AM
    I was recently let go from my position because of a new superintendent coming in and wanting to bring in his own staff. I had worked there for 3 and a half years and I am now looking for another Assistant Superintendents position! I would like to be in the North East if at all possible but with tough times like these we have to be willing to look at all options. If anyone has any advice or suggestions for me please feel free to let me know.

    Thanks



  29. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    10/15/2011 5:10 PM
    They expect a lot of loyalty, don't they? When it comes their turn, they tend not to exhibit the same loyalty, do they?


    s



  30. James Smith
    James Smith avatar
    113 posts
    10/16/2011 7:10 AM
    andyjorg said: Randini,

    6 guys x 7 hours OT each week at $15.25/hour = $640.50 a week in pay.

    $10.50/hour for regular pay x 40 hours per week = $420 a week in pay.

    So, you could hire 1.5 full time employees instead of paying OT.

    I think I'd rather have the extra full time guy and part timer to help with daily duties than pay OT. Especially if you are always complaining about being shorthanded. Those two extra hands in the morning set up would go a long way, prior to play when work is the most efficient. My opinion.

    If a Superintendent constantly complains about not having enough people to get the job done, but willingly paying OT each week for his crew because he is concerned about their personal well being, will soon find himself out of a job and having to worry about his own well being. If you want to pay OT to "help them out", so be it. Just be careful when you complain about being short handed. Accountants don't like OT. This isn't a knock on you, so don't take it personally.

    Stating the job is a 40 hour a week job during the employment offer sets the expectation. If they don't want it, they can find another job. If they happen to get OT during aerification, etc...consider it a perk.

    When they are getting the OT, ask yourself if you would pay the same person $15.25 an hour to do the job that they normally do for $10.50.


    Andy good math only thing left out is that there is no way to get 6 guys to work 7 days a week 52 weeks a year. I use three guys every weekend alternating the others when the main ones need a weekend off. I never complain about not having enough workers. do I wish I had more? heck yes but adding a $17,000 employee to my payroll would never be allowed at this point.

    Lets look at this differently shall we. A course down the street does not allow overtime so whenever one employee works the weekend they have to take time off during the week (they are not allowed to hire extra help). thats three guys taking 1 day a week off. so now you are shorthanded by one person three days every week and the guys no longer like working the weekend. While there course is taken care of decently things get left undone do the the shortage of help.

    My course works all of my crew 40 hours a week. Mon-Fri if they work the weekend they make $15.75 hour or an extra $110.25 a weekend. Because they get the overtime they can pay their bills and do not seek employment elsewhere. Are they getting rich? Never. but they are happy. they keep the course in great shape. know what to do and when to do it. show up on time and work with good attitudes and my turnover is low. I sleep better at night and get to take some weekends off without worrying about the course. My members are always raving about the course conditions and how well my crew works.

    Out of the two courses I will take mine with the six workers over the other course anyday.

    For the guys that work the majority of the weekends, they know that those hours is what helps them do a little more then just pay their bills. It helps them live a happier life and makes them a little more loyal to our club.

    As I said I do not complain about being short handed, it is what it is. I have been at this position at this club for almost 17 years using this same OT method and still have three of my original crew members working for me, guess which three get the overtime?

    I basically pay out about $15,000 a year in weekend overtime between three to five guys. That may only get me one extra full time person and possibly cause me to worry about the weekend help not showing up. I am 48 years old and am enjoying my sleep without worries. but this works for me and maybe not the next person because no one at my club has ever questioned overtime in my department, mainly because the course is in great shape and everything gets done on the weekends.



View or change your forums profile here.