"Working Superintendent" Cancel The title field is required!

1. Lehman James L

   
   2/1/2012 8:02 AM

   I am a little miffed about the job posting for Palm Harbour. They are looking for a "working Superintendent." Am I being too sensitive or should it be phrased differently? How about just saying you will be required to do the administrative tasks at night and simultaneously be an Operator, Spray Tech, and Irrigation Tech by day.
   
   Years ago, the GCSAA was adamant about calling us Superintendents instead of Greenkeepers. Hmmm.

   
   
   
   
2. Keith Lamb

   

   3 posts
   
   2/1/2012 8:02 AM

   In my experience "working" is code for no crew, no money and long hours.

   
   
   
   
3. Curtis Nickerson

   

   0 posts
   
   2/1/2012 8:02 AM

   Working Superintendent, Green-keeper, Round-belly weed puller call me anything you want but unemployed!
   
   I agree with Keith, it is usually code for; little budget, lots of hours and unrealistic expectations....

   
   
   
   
4. Brent Venenga

   

   0 posts
   
   2/1/2012 10:02 AM

   James, I use to get wound up about this also. It all comes down to the people posting the openings. They are just looking for a person that will be in the trenches fixing irrigation or laying under the mower to fix it when it breaks down.

   
   
   
   
5. Steve Nelson

   

   0 posts
   
   2/1/2012 10:02 AM

   They need to clarify it by stating 'working superintendent' to differentiate from all the other superintendents that obviously don't do any work.
   
   In all seriousness, as Kieth pointed out we all know what the phrase actually means, it has become common terminology, and I don't mind that they used it in the ad. Appreciate them being upfront about it.

   
   
   
   
6. Tyler Daniels

   

   1 posts
   
   2/1/2012 10:02 AM

   I disagree with Keith. A "working superintendent" is someone who goes out everyday with their crew and does their job. My experience being a "working superintendent" has taught me that your crew gains a lot of respect for you when your out busting your butt with them everyday. Also, just being out on the course everyday and seeing what's going on with your turf is vital to the overall health of your course. I don't understand the thinking of if a Superintendent has to work, then they must not have much of a budget.
   
   Tyler Daniels
   Wine Valley Golf Club

   
   
   
   
7. Keith Lamb

   

   3 posts
   
   2/1/2012 11:02 AM

   Tyler, if you are assuming that most of us don't "work," then your assumption is incorrect. I can only speak for myself, but most of us are "working superintendents." When someone posts a job using that phrase, again, it is a different way of saying, as Steve pointed out, that you are a glorified member of the crew in most cases. You probably do not have a spray tech, irrigation tech and sometimes you don't have a equipment manager. They either can't afford or will not hire these positions and want someone whole will fill all these roles.
   
   If you are not out there everyday leading by example, taking advantage of those teachable moments and keeping a sharp eye on your course you are going to struggle no matter what. Some of the superintendents that I most respect are out there everyday doing these things no matter their crew size or budgets.
   
   Signed, a working superintendent.

   
   
   
   
8. Andy Jorgensen

   

   1 posts
   
   2/1/2012 12:02 PM

   It may be a working Superintendent at first, but the right guy can make it a slacker Superintendent position. Meaning, it will be up to him to change that. He can delegate and let the crew do the work, while he handles the behind the scenes stuff.

   
   
   
   
9. Homme David R

   
   2/1/2012 5:02 PM

   Do they advertise for "working" golf pro and "working" GM positions?
   
   Dave Homme
   Falls Resort

   
   
   
   
10. McCallum David K

    
    2/2/2012 6:02 AM

    Thanks for the clarification Keith.....we thought you and Andy played golf all day.

    
    
    
    
11. Ronald Conard

    

    4 posts
    
    2/2/2012 8:02 AM

    David Homme said: Do they advertise for "working" golf pro and "working" GM positions?
    
    Dave Homme
    Falls Resort

    
    
    Those particular animals are extinct I believe.

    
    
    
    
12. Curtis Nickerson

    

    0 posts
    
    2/2/2012 9:02 AM

    In a former life when I worked for a large maintenance company as a regional manager I have used the term "working superintendent" when posting ad's and my intention was exactly what Keith and others have said. It was a small course with little resources. No spray tech, irrigation tech and a part time mechanic... If the candidate couldn't physically do it, it didn't get done. Also like Andy mentioned, if you hire the right people it can become a much better position. Frankly it is how I got my start 20 years ago...no spray tech, no irrigation tech and no mechanic. Within a year I had filled these positions with people but from outside the industry (translation=people I could afford), the mechanic was a H.S. kid that was a motor head, shade tree mechanic, my asst/spray tech was a young kid with a his own lawn business looking for a steady check, he had to leave early 2 days a week to take care of his lawns but it worked for both of us. It turned into a pretty decent job, I learned a lot...mostly what not to do...but I am better for having done it...

    
    
    
    
13. Keith Lamb

    

    3 posts
    
    2/2/2012 1:02 PM

    David McCallum said: Thanks for the clarification Keith.....we thought you and Andy played golf all day.

    
    
    
    That would be Andy. Last time I heard, his assistant hadn't seen him for a few days due to his "golfing" commitments. Andy has made the slacker superintendent position into a fine art. Andy lives for two things...golfing and answering your questions here on the forum.

    
    
    
    
14. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    2/2/2012 5:02 PM

    Keith Lamb said:

    David McCallum said: Thanks for the clarification Keith.....we thought you and Andy played golf all day.

    
    
    
    That would be Andy. Last time I heard, his assistant hadn't seen him for a few days due to his "golfing" commitments. Andy has made the slacker superintendent position into a fine art. Andy lives for two things...golfing and answering your questions here on the forum.

    
    
    No time for either today. Today, I had to work.
    
    I cooked 38 racks of ribs for the crew. THAT, my friends, is what a working Superintendent is all about!
    
    By the way Keith, see you at the Benevolent tournament on the 13th!

    
    
    
    
15. Keith Lamb

    

    3 posts
    
    2/2/2012 5:02 PM

    Andy Jorgensen said:

    Keith Lamb said:

    David McCallum said: Thanks for the clarification Keith.....we thought you and Andy played golf all day.

    
    
    
    That would be Andy. Last time I heard, his assistant hadn't seen him for a few days due to his "golfing" commitments. Andy has made the slacker superintendent position into a fine art. Andy lives for two things...golfing and answering your questions here on the forum.

    
    
    No time for either today. Today, I had to work.
    
    I cooked 38 racks of ribs for the crew. THAT, my friends, is what a working Superintendent is all about!
    
    By the way Keith, see you at the Benevolent tournament on the 13th!

    
    
    Shush Andy! [size=50">see ya there![/size">

    
    
    
    
16. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    2/2/2012 7:02 PM

    Funny, on Andy's facebook page all he talked about was his long days with his pre-emergent applications, he didn't say he was cooking for all the guys making the applications.
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
17. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    2/3/2012 5:02 AM

    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said: Funny, on Andy's facebook page all he talked about was his long days with his pre-emergent applications, he didn't say he was cooking for all the guys making the applications.
    
    Mel

    
    
    Because it was contracted out!!! Ha ha. But, when those guys finished up at 5:30 last night, they each took a rack for the road. Poor guys....they've been stuck here in Ocala for 3 nights. Two days at my course, and today at a course down the road.

    
    
    
    
18. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    2/3/2012 9:02 AM

    Andy,
    
    With you feeding them like that, I wonder if they really didn't mind being stuck, here the poor guy after you, he might hear about it, or they will rush to get back home?
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
19. Steven Fowler

    

    0 posts
    
    2/3/2012 1:02 PM

    Here is my two cents, Some cites in the Mid-west post jobs wanting or asking for a working Superintendent, but really mean that they just want another crew member putting 8 plus hours a day in, then do all the work of a Superintendent for free. Some little towns have gone though 6 or more supers in the dozen years and still can't figure it out. I had the miss fortune of working for one. The day I was canned one of golfer said at the time, "The problem may not be at the golf course, but like most people it has to be the worker's not us!

    
    
    
    
20. Robert Crockett

    

    4 posts
    
    2/3/2012 2:02 PM

    James Lehman said: I am a little miffed about the job posting for Palm Harbour. They are looking for a "working Superintendent." Am I being too sensitive or should it be phrased differently? How about just saying you will be required to do the administrative tasks at night and simultaneously be an Operator, Spray Tech, and Irrigation Tech by day.
    
    Years ago, the GCSAA was adamant about calling us Superintendents instead of Greenkeepers. Hmmm.

    
    I'm a working Super and I like it....I've been at the high end with the politics and snot noses turned me off. Here today gone tomorrow. I run a Municipal now in a small town, have a great crew which all Respect me....I stay in great shape,get quality time off in the off season, Awesome job security and member appreciation. We do more than we're asked and proud of what we do with what we don't have. I'm a Class "A" with GCSAA, and just a happy person all around. Great benefits and PROTECTED retirement. Life IS too short to bust it for a bunch of money hungary Golf Corps, which I've worked for some of those Soul less high profit margin entities also.

    
    
    
    
21. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    2/4/2012 8:02 AM

    My question to the guy would be, since he is "working" does that make him eligible for overtime?
    
    I don't know my labor laws that well, but if his job consist of a certain percentage of doing tasks he would be eligible? There might be a crew size thing as well.
    
    I too work for a city/county park system, and while salary isn't up to average, benefits are ok, I do earn comp time when I work over 40 hours, gives me time off in the off season. It has certainly come in handy this year.
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
22. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    2/5/2012 2:02 PM

    I had one of those jobs once.....it didn't work out. The owner expected me to do everything include being the mechanic, spray tech, cup cutter and equipment operator for 31k a year. He then helped himself to the tools and even took equipment home to work on his house.
    It's a euphemism for large work for small pay.
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve

    
    
    
    
23. Homme David R

    
    2/5/2012 3:02 PM

    Mel, you're correct about the OT. Salary does not = whatever hours it takes. Here, the laws are that a minimum of 50% of time is required in a strictly supervisory role to be considered a "manager" and then not eligible for OT or stat holidays.
    
    Anybody who's worked up the ladder from head toilet washer to asst. and then to super. in this business, can certainly do the work and knows how to work I would say. The owners that need to post this "working" superintendent thing, generally also do not understand the job. Sigh, what else is new.
    
    When I'm at work, I feel I am working whether it's digging a hole or checking on someone who is digging a hole for me, or answering a phone call or whatever.
    
    These owners would be well served to put some trust in their top guys and if they could see past their own noses, they would realize that they actually get more work out of us "superintendent" types when they leave us alone, then when they hang over the shoulder and attempt to manage our time. Guys I know in this business are into what they do, and they get it done.
    
    Dave Homme
    Falls Resort

    
    
    
    
24. Cooper James S

    
    2/14/2012 4:02 PM

    I am the one who posted the add. I was trying to be very clear of the responsibilities involved, and what is expected. For those wondering the crew consist of 6 people plus the superintnendent. One of those being a very experienced equipment manager, and another an irrigation tech. I was not trying to offend anyone, just not sugar coating the position. We are all "working superintendents," just some more than others.

    
    
    
    
25. David Soltvedt

    

    0 posts
    
    2/23/2012 9:02 AM

    I would not agree fully with my peers. Although a "working superintendent" may mean that it's a low budget, low resources, and long-hour job, I would like to think it's the fact that the previous superintendent just got lazy, complacent, and didn't have the desire that most people do these days. Maybe the person posting the position fears that if they don't specify that someone may get the wrong idea on what they are in for.

    
    
    
    
26. Steven Kurta

    

    2 posts
    
    2/23/2012 10:02 AM

    David Soltvedt, CGCS said: I would not agree fully with my peers. Although a "working superintendent" may mean that it's a low budget, low resources, and long-hour job, I would like to think it's the fact that the previous superintendent just got lazy, complacent, and didn't have the desire that most people do these days. Maybe the person posting the position fears that if they don't specify that someone may get the wrong idea on what they are in for.

    
    
    I would agree with Solventweld, here.

    
    
    
    
27. Brian Tobin

    

    0 posts
    
    3/8/2012 7:03 PM

    It could also mean that this position requires some work. It is a four letter word. My guess is the guy who posted this just wanted that to be known.

    
    
    
    
28. Ronald Conard

    

    4 posts
    
    3/9/2012 8:03 AM

    Brian Tobin said: It could also mean that this position requires some work. It is a four letter word. My guess is the guy who posted this just wanted that to be known.

    
    
    Well, then he doesn't know much about the people in our profession.

    
    
    
    
29. Brian Tobin

    

    0 posts
    
    3/9/2012 4:03 PM

    I must say I was being sarcastic in my previous post. I don't typically speak my mind in these forums, and now I see why. I know the individual who posted the open position. I am also quite familiar with the property. Mr James Cooper does indeed know a great deal about this profession and the people in it. The particular project that was being advertised will require a "working superintendent". If that offends people, then perhaps it's not the position for them. Of course we all work, but some roles are different than others. As Sam said he wasn't looking to sugar coat it.

    
    
    
    
30. Keith Lamb

    

    3 posts
    
    3/9/2012 6:03 PM

    Just look up the definition of "conard" in French and you will feel much better. More obvious sarcasm would help too. We're a little slow in here......or busy.....not working.