Forum Groups

 

Forums / Politics / Nuclear Option

Nuclear Option

21 posts
  1. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    11/22/2013 6:11 AM
    I'm sure this will come back to haunt the democrats. In the mean time it will haunt the republicans. Funny how those who are about to lose (republicans) scream the loudest about days gone by. But it's called the nuclear option for a reason. There's always the threat of pushing the button but it's such a horrific move that you have to be nuts to actually do it. Well, Obama and his sidekick Dems went and pushed the button.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjdbjrXiobQ



  2. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    11/22/2013 7:11 AM
    I heard a clip of when President Obama was a Senator and he spoke out against doing this in 2005.

    Since it is not part of the Constitution I don't see a problem with it, as I understand it, this country was founded on majority rules and this will allow that on the filling the positions so the government can get to running as it should.

    I can still support a pysical filibuster if a choice is so bad that they shouldn't be installed into office, but it has gotten to the point where the Republicans don't even want to put Republicans in to the Presidents positions. (Secretary Hagel for instance). When the process is being used in a totally political fasion, such as it is now, (check the numbers of how many more have been used since the current administration has been in office compared to previous ones), something needed to be done. And if the Republicans can mount a challenge and take back the Senate, I will live with the same rules in place.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  3. Steve Nelson
    Steve Nelson avatar
    0 posts
    11/22/2013 9:11 AM
    Since one party controls the Senate and the other controls the House, I don't see how a filibuster is even a relevant tactic anymore. Since the parties can't agree on anything then nothing can get passed by both houses and be on its way to becoming law anyway.



  4. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    11/22/2013 10:11 AM
    What's most interesting about this move, to me, is that the vast majority of Obama's nominees have been confirmed with only a few being denied. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me but I think the denials is somewhere around four.

    I tend to agree with you, Mel. The majority rules. But I was surprised the democrats pushed the nuclear option button given the minimal denials by the republicans and the havoc this will create for the democrats when the republicans take control of the senate. Not to mention the shameless hypocrisy of the move. The democrats have chucked the Hail Mary down the field in an act of desperation.



  5. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    11/22/2013 11:11 AM
    Clay Putnam, CGCS said: What's most interesting about this move, to me, is that the vast majority of Obama's nominees have been confirmed with only a few being denied. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me but I think the denials is somewhere around four.

    I tend to agree with you, Mel. The majority rules. But I was surprised the democrats pushed the nuclear option button given the minimal denials by the republicans and the havoc this will create for the democrats when the republicans take control of the senate. Not to mention the shameless hypocrisy of the move. The democrats have chucked the Hail Mary down the field in an act of desperation.


    Clay there are at least 3 seats on the DC Circuit Court of Appeals, the second most important court they say behind the Supreme Court, also, there are positions that have been open for up to two years, that is plan ridiculous. Filibusters have been used twice as many times since President Obama came into office.

    I don't know how you can call the move hypocrisy, unless you are going back to Senator Obama and others statements, which is funny because it is pretty much the same statement McConnell made yesterday, I told you all Obama is a centrist. It had become a political football/tool and needed to stop. It doesn't change the 60 votes needed for the Supreme Court though. I don't call it an act of desperation; I call it an act of congress doing its job, well the Senate anyway. Like I said, I am willing to live with the concrescences if the Republicans gain the Senate.

    Gus, nothing changes in the House when it comes to laws, these are appointments that the Senate controls and the House has nothing to do with, (thank god, because than nothing gets done).

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  6. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    11/22/2013 11:11 AM
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said:
    Clay Putnam, CGCS said: What's most interesting about this move, to me, is that the vast majority of Obama's nominees have been confirmed with only a few being denied. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me but I think the denials is somewhere around four.

    I tend to agree with you, Mel. The majority rules. But I was surprised the democrats pushed the nuclear option button given the minimal denials by the republicans and the havoc this will create for the democrats when the republicans take control of the senate. Not to mention the shameless hypocrisy of the move. The democrats have chucked the Hail Mary down the field in an act of desperation.


    I don't know how you can call the move hypocrisy,

    Mel


    Ah, Mel. Did you click the link I posted? Pretty much self explanatory. Surely you see the hypocrisy, right?



  7. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    11/22/2013 11:11 AM
    Two third votes were set up for a reason. It is supposed to be hard fought. The purpose is to prevent a presidency from doing things like stacking courts. Obama just wanted to be able to go court shopping to be sue what he wants happens. This will indeed come back to haunt the dems and Harry! Democracy isn't supposed to be convenient or easy.



  8. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    11/22/2013 11:11 AM
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said:
    Clay Putnam, CGCS said:

    Gus, nothing changes in the House when it comes to laws, these are appointments that the Senate controls and the House has nothing to do with, (thank god, because than nothing gets done).

    Mel


    Mel,

    More often than not, when nothing gets done - that's a good thing.



  9. Corey Eastwood
    Corey Eastwood avatar
    82 posts
    11/22/2013 12:11 PM
    On front page of today's paper.
    Filibusters;
    Eisenhower 0
    Kennedy 0
    Johnson 0
    Nixon 0
    Ford 0
    Carter 2
    Reagan 2
    Bush 0
    Clinton 9
    Bush 7
    Obama 27
    Obama 45

    I am sure the Republicans will reverse this when they regain power.

    Corey Eastwood CGCS, Stockton Golf & CC, Retired

  10. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    11/22/2013 2:11 PM
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said:
    Clay Putnam, CGCS said: What's most interesting about this move, to me, is that the vast majority of Obama's nominees have been confirmed with only a few being denied. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me but I think the denials is somewhere around four.

    I tend to agree with you, Mel. The majority rules. But I was surprised the democrats pushed the nuclear option button given the minimal denials by the republicans and the havoc this will create for the democrats when the republicans take control of the senate. Not to mention the shameless hypocrisy of the move. The democrats have chucked the Hail Mary down the field in an act of desperation.


    Clay there are at least 3 seats on the DC Circuit Court of Appeals, the second most important court they say behind the Supreme Court, also, there are positions that have been open for up to two years, that is plan ridiculous. Filibusters have been used twice as many times since President Obama came into office.

    I don't know how you can call the move hypocrisy, unless you are going back to Senator Obama and others statements, which is funny because it is pretty much the same statement McConnell made yesterday, I told you all Obama is a centrist. It had become a political football/tool and needed to stop. It doesn't change the 60 votes needed for the Supreme Court though. I don't call it an act of desperation; I call it an act of congress doing its job, well the Senate anyway. Like I said, I am willing to live with the concrescences if the Republicans gain the Senate.

    Gus, nothing changes in the House when it comes to laws, these are appointments that the Senate controls and the House has nothing to do with, (thank god, because than nothing gets done).

    Mel


    Clay,
    I didn't watch the link, but I did acknowledge it in my first two posts (one above). And I feel it is no different, both sides are being hypocritical, and that is typical of politicians. I don't like it when people I support do it, or the other side, but I give them a break, I'm not going to go Nuclear myself over their words, I would prefer to see their actions.

    Sandy,
    I don't disagree with the three branches of government holding each other in check. But why do you only complain about Obama wanting to pack a court? Any president is going to "pack" a court typically with people that will lean more toward their ideology, they feel that is what the people elected (President Obama did win the election, twice) them to do, (although if there are positions open, how is that "packing" the court, and we would hope people get chosen more based on merit, than ideology, but people that run in the same circles and network are usually the ones chosen. No different than many other professions and jobs.) Packing the court in my opinion would be more like what FDR tried to do by expanding the court.

    Pete, while is some cases that might be true, when something is messed up they need to step up and fix it.

    Thanks Corey for posting the numbers, which in my opinion tells me it is a political issue, not a governing one.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  11. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    11/22/2013 4:11 PM
    Mel,

    Its just hit me like a brick in the forehead. If you ever consider throwing in the towel on the golf profession, you have a stellar career awaiting you as a politician.



  12. Steven Kurta
    Steven Kurta avatar
    2 posts
    11/23/2013 8:11 AM
    Clay, do your own research on these numbers, but I've seen them in other places besides next to Reid and Schumer.
    I have no opinion on whether or not it was the right choice. The only thing that's plain to me, is that when someone is giving you no choice by obstructing you somehow, and they won't negotiate, you go around them. The republicans brought this on themselves. Maybe that was their endgame afterall? To force the dems to pull the trigger so they'd be justified in doing it when they have the senate one day. Who knows.
    Overall arc of the republic is all I can look at and it's either trending flat down or up in the areas I think matter long term to me as a citizen.



  13. Jon Gansen
    Jon Gansen avatar
    1 posts
    11/23/2013 10:11 AM
    What is the main topic now on all news media? This was done to stem the bleeding on Ocare. Take the publics mind off the problems of a complete failure of signature legislation and keep polls from sinking further.



  14. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    11/24/2013 8:11 PM
    I heard a thought this morning. Wall Street, The banking industry and business wanted these positions filled to try to fix the uncertainty, which they fear more than regulations. The republicans didn't put up a fight except for their talking points because it allows them to vote against stuff, the posistions still get filled and the republicans don't face a challenge from the right in primaries.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  15. Dennis Cook
    Dennis Cook avatar
    1 posts
    11/25/2013 8:11 AM
    You guys act like all the republicans do is block all there nominations and that is absolute BS. Under Obama there has been 211judges confirmed by the senate. 39 judges have been confirmed to the court of appeals by the senate and 168 to US district courts. So where is all this obstructionism. Looks like many judges were confirmed as they should have been. The reason for blocking certain ones is because of the hyperpartisan beliefs of some of these nominees. Obama is just trying to stack the court with like minded individuals so Obamacare will have a golden parachute. Hes trying to build a majority in the court that is going to hear all the cases about Obamacare. Its blatantly obvious, but the left will never quit demonizing us evil republicans.

    If it were me, after Obama has lied about so many things, I would fillibuster every piece of legislation that comes from the democrats because its obvious they cant be trusted on anything. All they do is say one thing and do another and then cover it up and blame it on the repubs......or a video........or George W Bush.
    These people arent accountable for anything and thats why they cant be trusted



  16. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    11/25/2013 9:11 AM
    Dennis, that is because is more important to them than anything. If it means lying, manipulating rules or whatever, the end justifies the means. Doesn't sound healthy to me because 50% of the country will always disagree. That is why the two thirds and other rules were established. Our founding fathers did everything they could when founding the nation to prevent tyranny.



  17. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    11/25/2013 10:11 AM
    Dennis Cook said: You guys act like all the republicans do is block all there nominations and that is absolute BS. Under Obama there has been 211judges confirmed by the senate. 39 judges have been confirmed to the court of appeals by the senate and 168 to US district courts. So where is all this obstructionism. Looks like many judges were confirmed as they should have been. The reason for blocking certain ones is because of the hyperpartisan beliefs of some of these nominees. Obama is just trying to stack the court with like minded individuals so Obamacare will have a golden parachute. Hes trying to build a majority in the court that is going to hear all the cases about Obamacare. Its blatantly obvious, but the left will never quit demonizing us evil republicans.
    If it were me, after Obama has lied about so many things, I would fillibuster every piece of legislation that comes from the democrats because its obvious they cant be trusted on anything. All they do is say one thing and do another and then cover it up and blame it on the repubs......or a video........or George W Bush.
    These people arent accountable for anything and thats why they cant be trusted


    Dennis,

    Just read something about this, of course just one source, but Senator Grassley, spoke about blocking President Obama's nominations to the DC 2nd court, "in an effort to save money" yet under the Bush presidency Senator Grassley voted to fill those 3 seats that President Obama is trying to fill. Although Grassley says the president can move those seats elsewhere, but I think the republicans' problem is the cases that the DC second court hears. But if it is an effort to save money, then fill one seat, how can a court run with an even number? Boards don't do that, jury's don't do that. Have a nine member court, I can accept that.

    I for one don't want to demonize republicans but if the shoe fits, the president won the election, it is his duty to fill those seats. Why don't the republicans present an electable candidate, then they can fill those seats with who they would like. Of course the democratic senators will fight it as they did under President Bush, but I will support any president to fill those seats, unless they nominate people that are totally unqualified. That's what elections are for or those are the consequences, maybe people should think about that more when they are voting.

    I had to support President Bush going to war in Iraq despite misgivings, I had to support his not putting the cost of the wars in the budget (like President Obama did, which is why we have a debt and budget issue, and his other, I would call them mistakes, such as cutting taxes without cutting spending, Medicare D with the donut hole). I could only try to find and vote for candidates that would correct those issues. But wanting to hold up the country's business because you disagree? What other business runs like that, and that is what I hear all the time "that government should run more like a business" (which I agree with sometimes because of the added cost of doing things to make sure there is no improprieties and money/jobs etc being handed out as favors) Transparency does come with a price, plus in some situations like rebuilding after natural disasters does require efforts outside of normal business norms. But what do I know, just my opinion.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  18. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    11/25/2013 10:11 AM
    Sandy Clark, CGCS said: Dennis, that is because is more important to them than anything. If it means lying, manipulating rules or whatever, the end justifies the means. Doesn't sound healthy to me because 50% of the country will always disagree. That is why the two thirds and other rules were established. Our founding fathers did everything they could when founding the nation to prevent tyranny.


    Well with the exception of ending slavery and allowing women to vote, they continued with that tyranny, also the Native Americans might not agree with the prevention of tyranny. I guess there has been a lot of lying and manipulating of rules throughout our history and the government has tried to correct it and create a fair country. Look at the industrial age and the monopolies that were keeping the "people" down. The lying to move the Native Americans from their land, we have some dark histories that are conveniently forgotten when we talk about what the founding fathers and leaders before did.

    I do applaud them for doing what they did and coming up with the documents they did, I think they accomplished more than they ever realized.

    I wonder as we really look at the history, what was their reason for creating a new country, wasn't it mainly to avoid paying taxes to the king, but because of their principles as men, and their varied backgrounds and ideas, they did create a nation of ideals that became a great nation.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  19. Dennis Cook
    Dennis Cook avatar
    1 posts
    11/27/2013 6:11 PM
    Mel,
    Obama hasnt put anything in a budget. He hasnt had a budget since he has been president. He wants to keep using continuing resolutions so he can maintain spending levels of the stimulus the dems passed. Every continuing resolution since has had that stimulus level of spending. Thats why we are in the budget debt crisis.

    Continuing resolutions also take the accountability out of the equation. Obama will never submit a budget because he would be ridiculed for his expenditures. By getting a continuing resolution he can spend it on whatever he wants without accountability, Solyndra, electric cars, etc.



  20. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
  21. Ashton Alan W
    Ashton Alan W avatar
View or change your forums profile here.