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Obamacare fines start for hospitals

47 posts
  1. Albert Kronwall
    Albert Kronwall avatar
    0 posts
    10/8/2012 8:10 AM
    Hospitals who re-admit patients within 30 days after they were discharged will now have to, under an Obamacare provision, pay fines as of Oct. 1 2012, which could force hospitals to slash programs that help the elderly, the poor, and the chronically ill. The provision was inserted into Obamacare as a cost-cutting measure, but it will force hospitals to give the poor, elderly, and chronically ill substandard care.

    So tell me again who is putting profit ahead of care?



  2. Niemier Rick A
    Niemier Rick A avatar
    10/8/2012 9:10 AM
    Albert Kronwall said: Hospitals who re-admit patients within 30 days after they were discharged will now have to, under an Obamacare provision, pay fines as of Oct. 1 2012, which could force hospitals to slash programs that help the elderly, the poor, and the chronically ill. The provision was inserted into Obamacare as a cost-cutting measure, but it will force hospitals to give the poor, elderly, and chronically ill substandard care.

    So tell me again who is putting profit ahead of care?



    Actually this will benefit patients. Hospitals will have to be more careful when they discharge patients to make sure the patients are really ready to be discharged. The fines will only be if the hospitals re-admit the patient for the same issue. They only reason it would cost money is if the hospital is discharging patients too early, trying to save money at the cost of the patients health. But of course, you won't believe that Albert. Your only mission is to slam Obama any way you can, even if you have to stretch the truth.



  3. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    10/8/2012 9:10 AM
    Ok, here is the problem with this part of the plan. How many of you have elderly parents? I can tell you my father-in-law has been in the hospital several times in the past two years over minor issues. If he gets a stomach ache, his youngest daughter will call and he will be taken by ambulance to the hospital. Problem turned out to be constipation! You can go to the drug store for that. A week or two later, he gets dizzy. Back to the hospital he goes and it turns out to be nothing. Next he falls down and can't figure out how to get up. Paramedics come again and take him to the hospital for a complete check. You have older people that are scared and caregivers that panic. This isn't going to stop. Why should the hospital be fined. You could easily have the same type of event twice in the same month. I hate to admit it because I will be elderly in about 40 years but unless the elderly have a better handle on their own health, the calls won't stop! Why should the hospital be held accountable?



  4. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    10/8/2012 9:10 AM
    They have to back in the hospital with the same issue. Constipation, vertigo, tripping are all different issues. Although I am sure this point does not matter to those who choose to hate Obama for no explainable reason.



  5. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/8/2012 9:10 AM
    Sandy Clark, CGCS said: Ok, here is the problem with this part of the plan. How many of you have elderly parents? I can tell you my father-in-law has been in the hospital several times in the past two years over minor issues. If he gets a stomach ache, his youngest daughter will call and he will be taken by ambulance to the hospital. Problem turned out to be constipation! You can go to the drug store for that. A week or two later, he gets dizzy. Back to the hospital he goes and it turns out to be nothing. Next he falls down and can't figure out how to get up. Paramedics come again and take him to the hospital for a complete check. You have older people that are scared and caregivers that panic. This isn't going to stop. Why should the hospital be fined. You could easily have the same type of event twice in the same month. I hate to admit it because I will be elderly in about 40 years but unless the elderly have a better handle on their own health, the calls won't stop! Why should the hospital be held accountable?


    Sandy, each incident that you mention and trip to the hospital is for a different ailment or cause, so the hospital would not be fined.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  6. Albert Kronwall
    Albert Kronwall avatar
    0 posts
    10/8/2012 10:10 AM
    If you have ever had to deal with Cancer treatments you know that multiple admissions in one month is not abnormal. I have personal expierience with this and know the treatments play hell on your body and your health can fluctuate greatly day to day, let alone monthly. So, will the hospital keep patients admitted longer to avoid penalties for re-admittance, or will they make you wait until the next month.



  7. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    10/8/2012 10:10 AM
    A very good analogy Albert.



  8. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/8/2012 10:10 AM
    Albert Kronwall said: If you have ever had to deal with Cancer treatments you know that multiple admissions in one month is not abnormal. I have personal experience with this and know the treatments play hell on your body and your health can fluctuate greatly day to day, let alone monthly. So, will the hospital keep patients admitted longer to avoid penalties for re-admittance, or will they make you wait until the next month.


    I'm sure that for those issues (of course I'm speaking without any knowledge or experience) that you talk about Andy, I would bet there are ways the hospitals will be able to code or record those as separate visits.

    I have heard that insurance companies always wanted to push people out as soon as they could to save them money. If they would have had something like these fines in place, maybe the insurance companies wouldn't push people out, maybe we wouldn't have needed the entire law.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  9. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    10/8/2012 11:10 AM
    You guys ignored the fact that I stated an older person could be back in for a related issue. I agree that each are different but I was clear that it would not be uncommon for issues to be the same or related to the same event!



  10. Ronald Kirkman
    Ronald Kirkman avatar
    42 posts
    10/8/2012 12:10 PM
    Hey,

    Will guys stop talking about older people!!

    Physical Therapy tomorrow for my torn Miniscis in my knee - Dermatologist appointment tomorrow - Can't eat tomorrow and I have to drink the whatever tomorrow night for my colonoscopy Wednesday morning.

    LEAVE us old people alone !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Captain Kirk
    Retired Alien
    Needham Golf Club
    Needham, MA



  11. Steven Kurta
    Steven Kurta avatar
    2 posts
    10/8/2012 12:10 PM
    A hospital gets hit with a fine and you think the first thing they go for is kicking patients out of bed, Albert? You're an idiot. You obviously have no idea how hospitals are funded, how they invest their money, or how they pay their bills. But you won't get those details by repeating what you hear on Rush and Glenn Beck. You're boring. Please stop or come up with something more entertaining.



  12. Larry Stowell
    Larry Stowell avatar
    0 posts
    10/8/2012 1:10 PM
    From the experience with my mother and Wendy's mother, hospitals do try to push patients out the door too soon in some situations. My mother was discharged three times to return the following day. The stress of the repeated discharges and ambulance rides back to the hospital added to the stress that eventually lead to her death - she never made it home for more than one night. I think she still had a few years left in her had she not been repeatedly shuffled around when she was in a delicate condition. The hospital did eventually successfully get her discharged so that she would never come back - in a coffin - I'd trust a 7-person death panel over the 1-person (your doctor) death panel we currently have.

    It isn't a good idea to stay in a hospital any longer than is essential. However, sending patients home too early is also a problem and the repeated discharges are a sign that someone on the hospital side is not accurately evaluating their patients condition. I have more stories about the crappy hospital service and I am sure others also have stories. If we have the best health care in the world, I'm sadly disappointed. I have hopes that Obama-Romney care will improve the system. The non-regulated free market isn't working where health care is involved. If the Obama-Romney care fails, we will dump it at a later date. For now, I'm willing to give the system a chance. If it is too expensive and dept continues to build unexpectedly, the system or we the people will have to make some changes.



  13. Steven Kurta
    Steven Kurta avatar
    2 posts
    10/8/2012 3:10 PM
    [quote">It isn't a good idea to stay in a hospital any longer than is essential.

    ..Quoted for truth

    I think most people generally fear long stays in hospitals. Secondary infections are no joke.

    And sorry Al, but for christ's sake give the right wing agenda stuff a break for a second.
    It's tired sounding.



  14. Larry Allan
    Larry Allan avatar
    0 posts
    10/9/2012 6:10 AM
    David McCallum said: A very good analogy Albert.

    Dave how is that a good analogy. Cancer patience obviously have to return on a frequent basis. That is not who this is aimed at,



  15. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    10/9/2012 7:10 AM
    Red you may be correct but there are, from what I am told, often secondary issues with cancer patients not directly related to the disease they may be suffering with........infections, blood clots etc etc



  16. Jon Gansen
    Jon Gansen avatar
    1 posts
    10/9/2012 7:10 AM
    Steven Kurta said: [quote">It isn't a good idea to stay in a hospital any longer than is essential.


    ..Quoted for truth

    I think most people generally fear long stays in hospitals. Secondary infections are no joke.

    And sorry Al, but for christ's sake give the right wing agenda stuff a break for a second.
    It's tired sounding.

    What about the Medicare only paying for so long in the hospital, paying for certain procedures. Hospitals cannot keep someone in the hospital because they want to. Medicare allows time frames and procedures not case by case basis.



  17. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    10/9/2012 8:10 AM
    David McCallum said: Red you may be correct but there are, from what I am told, often secondary issues with cancer patients not directly related to the disease they may be suffering with........infections, blood clots etc etc


    David, it sounds like in this situation wouldn't secondary issues even though related to the first, be an actual different visit for a different reason? Wouldn't it be possible to code the visit different? I think that is where the medical community keeps it's money coming in by coding. Anyone care to explain how coding works?

    Jon, you are talking about medicare, insurance companies are the same way.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  18. Larry Allan
    Larry Allan avatar
    0 posts
    10/9/2012 9:10 AM
    Jon Gansen said:
    Steven Kurta said: [quote">It isn't a good idea to stay in a hospital any longer than is essential.


    ..Quoted for truth

    I think most people generally fear long stays in hospitals. Secondary infections are no joke.

    And sorry Al, but for christ's sake give the right wing agenda stuff a break for a second.
    It's tired sounding.


    What about the Medicare only paying for so long in the hospital, paying for certain procedures. Hospitals cannot keep someone in the hospital because they want to. Medicare allows time frames and procedures not case by case basis.
    It sound like more of a what if scenario ...like if the Queen of England came to your door and needed to use the washroom in an emergency, would you let her? some would some wouldn't, but ultimately Liz aint coming to any of our door looking to use the commode



  19. Albert Kronwall
    Albert Kronwall avatar
    0 posts
    10/9/2012 9:10 AM
    Larry Allan said:
    David McCallum said: A very good analogy Albert.

    Dave how is that a good analogy. Cancer patience obviously have to return on a frequent basis. That is not who this is aimed at,


    That's the point. This government controlled "one size fits all" approach has many unitended consequences. I don't like the "you have to pass it to see what's in it" way of fixing problems. I have a feeling there will be many more unintended consequences we haven't found out about yet as well. Our right of freedom of choice is being taken away and I don't like it.



  20. Albert Kronwall
    Albert Kronwall avatar
    0 posts
    10/9/2012 10:10 AM
    Steven Kurta said: A hospital gets hit with a fine and you think the first thing they go for is kicking patients out of bed, Albert? You're an idiot. You obviously have no idea how hospitals are funded, how they invest their money, or how they pay their bills. But you won't get those details by repeating what you hear on Rush and Glenn Beck. You're boring. Please stop or come up with something more entertaining.


    Steve

    Where's the love. I'm not getting the feeling of compassion, tolerance, and the desire to co-exist from you.

    This forum is for all Politics not just the view from the left. So, if it upsets you when someone points out policies that don't reflect well on the president don't read my posts. You still have that freedom!



  21. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    10/9/2012 11:10 AM
    Albert Kronwall said: Our right of freedom of choice is being taken away and I don't like it.


    The only choice Obamacare is trying to discourage is not taking responsibility for financing your own healthcare.



  22. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
  23. Sean Hoolehan
    Sean Hoolehan avatar
    0 posts
    10/9/2012 4:10 PM
    What about the Medicare only paying for so long in the hospital, paying for certain procedures. Hospitals cannot keep someone in the hospital because they want to. Medicare allows time frames and procedures not case by case basis.

    Medicare is a big part of the problem and why the new law is penal for letting patients leave early. A hospital can only bill about 50% for a medicare patient compared to a insured patient. There is a monetary incentive to get medicare patients out of the hospital sooner. If a patient is fully insured it is often the insurance company that wants the patient out sooner, but Doctors generally have the ability to keep patients in the hospital as long as its medically necessary. Many hospitals only let doctors who are in their employ treat patients in the hospital. Therefor the hospital has more control over the doctor. Medicare is primarily hospitalization insurance and some recovery and rehab services. The PPACA put millions more people on Medicaid (medicaid and medicare are on the same payment schedule) thus putting more stress on the system so they also had to try to protect the medicare/medicaid patient with this penalty. This cost shifting of non-reimbursed medicare expenses is what is really running up private insurance costs, and big reason why people are seeing premiums go up for health insurance. To compare it to our golf business, it is like the government requiring all golf courses to charge only twilight rates to seniors no matter when they want to play. Of course the difference is hospitals are saving lives and they can not (and should not) turn away anyone who needs emergency treatment, and they can not turn away medicare patients generally either.



  24. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    10/9/2012 4:10 PM
    Without Obamacare, the hospitals do not get paid at all for treating patients without insurance, or if they do the charges are discounted extremely and the payment plans are $20/month for life.

    Your golf analogy does not work because all medicaid and medicare patients are paying twilight rates now, and everyone would either have to take up golf or pay a fine. As a revenue side guy, I'd go with that!



  25. Sean Hoolehan
    Sean Hoolehan avatar
    0 posts
    10/9/2012 6:10 PM
    Scott Wahlin, CGCS"]Without Obamacare, the hospitals do not get paid at all for treating patients without insurance, or if they do the charges are discounted extremely and the payment plans are $20/month for life.

    The non-reimbursed medicare costs [u">dwarf [/u">the cost of treating the uninsured. The difference between a medicare patient and a non medicare patient for the same procedure, the medicare patients bill averages 50%-60% less for the exact same services. How do you think hospitals make up the difference?

    The uninsured is a small problem compared to the cost shifting in the medical industry caused by medicare.



  26. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    10/10/2012 8:10 AM
    Efficient hospitals that rely on Medicaid and Medicare patients can make a profit on them with comparable results as less efficient hospitals with other significant sources of revenues. These other hospitals can work with these people by offering care below cost. It just depends on what your level of cost is. Having said that hospitals spend $49 billion annually providing care to the uninsured.



  27. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    10/10/2012 9:10 AM
    Look at the fees established for medicare and medicade procedures. They barely cover the doctors clerical costs whats more the procedure. Too many doctors are refusing to do medicare and medicade work because the reimbursements are so far from the actual costs that it is foolish to participate. I notice none of us work for free so why should the doctors?



  28. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    10/10/2012 9:10 AM
    And the hypocracy of it all.........a government that forces all citizens to provide proof of insurance yet the same government does not require everyone to prove they are a citizen.............and those that refuse or unable to prove they are citizens will recieve FREE insurance, paid for those of us that are citizens.......amazing how things work under Obama



  29. Sean Hoolehan
    Sean Hoolehan avatar
    0 posts
    10/10/2012 11:10 AM
    David McCallum said: And the hypocracy of it all.........a government that forces all citizens to provide proof of insurance yet the same government does not require everyone to prove they are a citizen.............and those that refuse or unable to prove they are citizens will recieve FREE insurance, paid for those of us that are citizens.......amazing how things work under Obama



    Now that's exactly what Romney should say!



  30. Sean Hoolehan
    Sean Hoolehan avatar
    0 posts
    10/10/2012 11:10 AM
    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: Efficient hospitals that rely on Medicaid and Medicare patients can make a profit on them with comparable results as less efficient hospitals with other significant sources of revenues. These other hospitals can work with these people by offering care below cost. It just depends on what your level of cost is. Having said that hospitals spend $49 billion annually providing care to the uninsured.



    Great Point Scott, if Hospitals are loosing $49 Billion on the uninsured. they are loosing $490 Billion on Medicare. They have to make up the difference somewhere, guess who pays the difference, the poor schlock with health insurance, because health insurance does not have the power behind them that government does, and most plans are only as good as their pool. The biggest cause of healthcare inflation is medicare cost shifting.

    Medicare is hardly efficient! Yes hospitals are mining ($$) the plan for money finding the procedures that medicare over pays and making sure almost every senior who comes in gets those tests and procedures. This is exactly why turning healthcare lock, stock, and barrel over to the government is a bad idea.



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