looking for more ideas on Ball manks Cancel The title field is required!

1. Keith Pegg

   

   0 posts
   
   3/13/2013 6:03 PM

   Looking for new ideas, so far My staff fixes and the course marshals and player hit and miss,
   
   This is a photo on a Sunday AM after sat normal play and I ran out of flags could have used 50 more.
   all unfixed ball marks. Par 3 over water island green.
   
   thanks,
   Keith

   
   
   
   
2. Dalton Andrew

   
   3/13/2013 7:03 PM

   You could try leaving the flags out there for the golfers to putt through, maybe they will get the hint! Of course you will get the same response we all get "I always fix mine and one more" Not sure what kind of budget you have, but I have heard of some places giving out cheap ball mark repair tools to the golfers. You could also buy a few of the mechanical ball mark repair tools for the employees. Other than that I have no other suggestions, good luck.
   
   Andrew

   
   
   
   
3. Rosenthal Gregg

   
   3/14/2013 5:03 AM

   Keith,
   
   Our green mowers take a ball mark fixer tool with them everyday. They spend a few minutes going around the green fixing ball marks prior to mowing the green, it allows them to observe the green, pick up any loose materials, leaves, sticks, ball markers, ect, prior to starting the mowing or the green. I when changing the cups ahead of them also do my best to pick up stuff, but do not fix small ball marks, big ones I see near a new cup placement will get my attention for sure! Sometimes later in season it is hard to find a good cup placement without fighting ball marks, I often will cut the cup on top of one! You figure they cant hit the same spot twice! Par 3's are of course the worst! It is the daily battle we go through and even at a nice club the golfers get lazy and wont bend over and fix their ball mark, we have caddies and chat with them often to repair not just one but two or more for the benefit of play for all! The battle of life on the golf course been going on since the time the game began!
   
   GreggR

   
   
   
   
4. Patrick Quinlan

   

   0 posts
   
   3/14/2013 6:03 AM

   I worked at a very upscale private course where the previous superintendent went out on a Sunday morning and did the same thing with the irrigation flags except he left them on the green. That was his last day. I didn't really believe the story but we were cleaning out some old cabinets and found a picture of that day very similar to this one. Lesson being take the picture, REMOVE the flags, and communicate the issue.

   
   
   
   
5. Clay Putnam

   

   33 posts
   
   3/14/2013 6:03 AM

   Just a thought but do you think the power of persuasion could make a difference? Where I'm going with this is incentivizing the golfers for repairing ball marks. This would be administered at the golf shop counter where the golfer is offered something, (a gift certificate, a free drink, etc) in exchange for[u"> agreeing [/u">to repair multiple ball marks on each green during the course of their round. This would, obviously, have to be an honor system as you cannot follow all the golfers to make sure they hold up their end of the deal. But perhaps it would bring the ball mark issue to the front of their minds and give the golfers a sense of "ownership" particularly for your regular customers. Inevitably there will be golfers who renege on the deal but I would think a 50% participation rate would be deemed a success.

   
   
   
   
6. Dalton Andrew

   
   3/14/2013 6:03 AM

   Yeah, I hope you don't decide to leave the flags out there, that was a joke. I would try the mechanical ball mark repair tools to give to your help. We have 3 of them and they get used a lot. Unfortunately, ball marks are a sad part of the game that we must take care of ourselves.
   
   Andrew

   
   
   
   
7. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   3/14/2013 7:03 AM

   Wouldn't fixing multiple ballmarks slow play down even further? Fix one an one other is my motto, although I do tend to fix a couple more when playing (or that is my excuse for my slow play?).
   
   My question is, were ballmarks this much of a problem when we mowed at 5/32, or 3/16? How about firming them up? How about our watering methods, in the old days we watered heavy and then allowed them to dry out longer, I suppose the morning of watering they are wetter and have more ball marks, but does that tend to keep them a little on the dry side and less ballmarks?
   
   I know golfer etiquette is not what it used to be either and they should be ultimately responsible, but are our management methods causing part of the problem?
   
   Just wondering.
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
8. Sean Hoolehan

   

   0 posts
   
   3/14/2013 7:03 AM

   The best answer to ball marks are greens managed hard as rock. The majority of golfers, and the golf world talk a good game about etiquette but it rarely translates to anything I see on the course. I have shared this picture before from a PGA Pro-Am. 200+ players all with a PGA Pro in their foursome. Par 3 155 yards Notice how many Divots got filled.

   
   
   
   
9. Border Ricky H

   
   3/14/2013 11:03 AM

   We are a resort so the guests are out to have fun, hopefully this includes the round of their life. Unfortunately in some instances they are not stellar examples of golf etiquette. Everyone on staff has a ball mark repair tool so regardless of who is mowing greens they are required to fix ball marks. More importantly is our method of moving the cup around on the green, it is as follows. The cup will move from front to back of the green using the front(left,center,or right ) middle(left, center, or right) back(left, center, or right) therefore if cup is in the front left position it will be two days later till it is up front again most likely in the front right position and so on. I don't think that it is the rotation of pin placements that helps us. I think it's the fact that the staff has a good idea of were the majority of the ball marks should be and can focus their efforts to the area forward of that days pin placement. In most cases that specific pin area will not see a cup again for nine days (plenty of time to recover and be smooth again). I also feel that the bi-weekly topdressing has very much improved the severity of the damage. Early in the spring and late into fall the bentgrass will not recover fast enough so on par IIIs we will occasionally use a target cup cutter to plug out some nasty ones. Hope that helps.
   
   Ricky Border
   Oglebay Resort
   Wheeling, WV

   
   
   
   
10. Tony Feheregyhazi

    

    7 posts
    
    3/14/2013 11:03 AM

    Those are great pictures guys. I've been working at what is considered 'higher end' public golf courses for almost 18 years but started my career at a private track. I personally see only 3% to 5% of daily fee payers who fix ball marks or use sand and seed boxes. I'm really not sure if private tracks are any better, I would like to think so as members are usually a bit more educated. I feel that golf to the average public player has become a social thing and is really not a sport with rules and etiquette. They average guy doesn't really care and untill that changes ball marks will forever be an issue to us who do.

    
    
    
    
11. James Schmid

    

    1 posts
    
    3/14/2013 11:03 AM

    why do you want people fixing ball marks? Most people suck at it anyway. Mechanical ballmark tools also suck.
    
    I think some superintendents make a wierd assumption that if everyone repaired their ballmarks that there would be no scars on the green or that the scars are a result of improper ballmark repair. This is not accutate. Ballmarks are a part of the game, I think people make too big deal about ballmark scars. Im with Sean. If you keep the greens hard, roll and topdress appropriately for smoothness, ballmarks are not a significant issue. They are visible, but in terms of playability, not an issue.

    
    
    
    
12. Noy Sparks

    

    0 posts
    
    3/14/2013 12:03 PM

    James Schmid said: why do you want people fixing ball marks? Most people suck at it anyway. Mechanical ballmark tools also suck.
    
    I think some superintendents make a wierd assumption that if everyone repaired their ballmarks that there would be no scars on the green or that the scars are a result of improper ballmark repair. This is not accutate. Ballmarks are a part of the game, I think people make too big deal about ballmark scars. Im with Sean. If you keep the greens hard, roll and topdress appropriately for smoothness, ballmarks are not a significant issue. They are visible, but in terms of playability, not an issue.

    
    
    I agree James--however I also think that golf courses with native/Poa greens can hide their ball marks easier. With our USGA greens the scars are pretty ugly and can give the perception that the greens aren't that good--when in actuality they play great.

    
    
    
    
13. Ryan Campbell

    

    0 posts
    
    3/15/2013 9:03 AM

    Have a Superintendent's Revenge tournament and leave the pin flags out on the most problematic green for members to putt through. Ultimately i would have to agree that managing greens as hard as a rock are the best defense to ball marks.
    
    Ryan Campbell
    Golf Course Superintendent
    Lakewood Golf Club of NOLA

    
    
    
    
14. Keith Fellenstein

    

    0 posts
    
    3/15/2013 10:03 AM

    Sometimes I think we get too caught up in things like this. It's not our golf course its theirs...and there for them to play. I (my staff) currently don't repair ball marks. If things get so bad the players request I have someone repair ballmarks for them, as much as I disagree with it, we'll do whatever they pay us to do. In the meantime, they can try to putt through or around their minefield of unrepaired ballmarks

    
    
    
    
15. Wahlin Scott B

    
    3/15/2013 11:03 AM

    http://www.golfagronomics.com/gash-tools/
    
    We use these with Zeolite.

    
    
    
    
16. Timothy Walker

    

    0 posts
    
    3/15/2013 5:03 PM

    Ditto Keith, we do not spend time repairing ball marks. If changing cups I will fix any nasty marks near the cup. If we are caught up on our work I will send out 3 or 4 guys to fix ballmarks for an hour.

    
    
    
    
17. Keith Pegg

    

    0 posts
    
    3/16/2013 3:03 PM

    thanks for the comments everyone,
    My mowers carry ball mark tools and use them, we have the gash-be-gone tools also and the flags were left out for most of the day and we did posters for locker rooms and news letters. It all helps a little. greens are kept firm (100% sand greens). Par 3 and par 5 holes do take a beating is all.
    
    People are just lazy
    
    have the best summer to all
    
    Keith
    Zama Japan

    
    
    
    
18. Spong Erik

    
    3/16/2013 6:03 PM

    http://www.plantfoodco.com/lib/pdfs/PFC ... Sili-K.pdf
    
    Sili-k. Worked great for us. Don't mix with phosphites and put in tank last.

    
    
    
    
19. Schott Matthew

    
    3/16/2013 10:03 PM

    The golfer has 3 responsibilities: fix ballmarks, fill divots, and rake bunkers. It's part of the game, hold them to it, they sure make sure we fulfill ours.