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Would you....

89 posts
  1. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    1/30/2015 8:01 AM
    Studies are only as good as how they are framed. I'm curious, if good guys are only 18% accurate does that mean bad guys are also only 18% accurate and if so doesn't that put us back on an even playing field?

    Also interesting -

    http://reason.com/blog/2014/01/21/does-the-latest-study-finally-show-that



  2. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    1/30/2015 9:01 AM
    The story you never hear is about how many lives are saved and deaths prevented because someone has a weapon. The stories of someone saving their family during a break in are rarely reported because the press has an agenda that includes gun control. If all of the positive outcomes were published, it might prove very interesting. I would like to see that as a balance to all the negatives published about weapons. It is almost like car accidents. If an SUV is in an accident, it is reported in depth. If someone in a Prius or other electric vehicle kills someone, you never hear the terminology of the vehicle type brought up, only the SUV. Too many of these things are reported based on the politically correct agenda. If someone in that deli or the publication headquarters had a weapon, the outcome may have been different if a couple bad guys had taken a quick shot to the head! Unfortunately, it will always be speculation because they had no chance to defend themselves. We will never know!



  3. Ronald Conard
    Ronald Conard avatar
    4 posts
    1/30/2015 10:01 AM
    So then has everyone stopped toting around their families to Granny's on Thanksgiving Day? Talk about a risky endeavor.



  4. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    1/30/2015 10:01 AM
    Sandy brings up a valid point. The devil is in the details. For instance, alcohol related accident statistics. They are grossly over stated due to the statistic metrics. If a vehicle accident occurs and I am at fault even though I am sober yet the person I hit is carrying alcohol in his/her car and they are sober, the accident is categorized as an alcohol related accident.



  5. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    1/30/2015 10:01 AM
    Right. 50% of automobile accidents are caused by a driver under the influence, so that means 50% of accidents are caused by sober people. Let's get those teetotalers of the road!

    Clay, that article from the last link you posted is only somebody speculating on the researchers ' methods. If you want to prove or disprove anything, you need your own proper research.

    Let me rephrase my earlier question: How many peaceful, middle class families going about their daily business become victims of violent crimes?

    The murder and violent crime statistics in the U.S. are no doubt skewed by high crime areas, especially big-city ghettos. Do they include prison populations as well? If you're living in a rural area or a nice, white-bread suburb then your chances of being suddenly assaulted are practically nil.

    And Sandy, with all the resouces at their disposal, why doesn't the NRA tell us the feel-good stories about how armed passers-by came to the rescue of an innocent victims?



  6. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    1/30/2015 10:01 AM
    "Clay, that article from the last link you posted is only somebody speculating on the researchers ' methods. If you want to prove or disprove anything, you need your own proper research."

    Steve'O,

    Geez, time for a Snickers... You may recall my comment was "interesting" and the author's points are valid.



  7. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    1/30/2015 3:01 PM
    Yes Clay, the article raises some interesting points, but it doesn't arouse any Snickers-related emotions in me. Reese's peanut butter cups maybe. Sadly, I can't find those in France, and I have to get my sister to send them from the States.

    What I'm saying is that the author is merely speculating on the methodology of the study, and not actually doing anything that might disprove it. The author's points may or may not be valid, that can only be determined by further research. Until someone disproves it, the study stands. That's my point.



  8. Joel Rhodes
    Joel Rhodes avatar
    0 posts
    2/2/2015 2:02 AM
    http://news.yahoo.com/toddler-wounds-bo ... 49546.html

    Just another accident that did not need to happen. In no place on earth should a three-year old ever be able to shoot his parents!

    What is the opinion as to what should happen to the Adults in this story?

    Just sad. BUt , at least no one died in this accident.



  9. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    2/2/2015 8:02 AM
    Joel Rhodes said: http://news.yahoo.com/toddler-wounds-both-parents-1-shot-handgun-112549546.html

    Just another accident that did not need to happen. In no place on earth should a three-year old ever be able to shoot his parents!

    What is the opinion as to what should happen to the Adults in this story?

    Just sad. BUt , at least no one died in this accident.


    I know it will never happen because taking guns away from someone is "taking their 2nd amendment rights away", but since they are not responsible gun owners maybe they should have guns removed for a set period of years and before they get them back they must go through training. If they are that irresponsible I would prefer they aren't going around town carrying, who knows who gets hurt next? I would consider it similar to a felon not allowed to have a gun after release. But I guess I'm a liberal whiner, but I would hazard a guess that many responsible gun owners might think the same way?

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  10. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    2/2/2015 2:02 PM
    By Mike McConnell. Scroll to the 17:50 mark.

    Also an interesting illustration at the 7:50 mark about the global 1%ers.

    http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/9/f/a/9fad186a8e6e96cf/show_055__you_are_rich.mp3?c_id=8221161&expiration=1422910428&hwt=6e634e78ea14bbd6f232ce574e87ce64



  11. Keith Pegg
    Keith Pegg avatar
    0 posts
    2/2/2015 8:02 PM
    Steve, not sure, if working alone maybe yes,if I had trainning. No if a lot of people in the office all with guns then I would get a new job as that is a shooting that is going to happen.

    Keith



  12. Christopher Thuer
    Christopher Thuer avatar
    101 posts
    2/6/2015 5:02 PM
    I took my 12 year old son to his first night of 4h hunter education last night. After a few minutes the instructors announced for anyone with cc permits, except the state cop in the room in full uniform with his son, needed to leave their guns in their vehicles. We were in the second row and 3 dads in the first 2 rows got up to do so. I didn't turn around but John said about half the dads behind us did. We both commented on the way home how many there were and we had no idea.

    Chris Thuer, CGCS, Bear Slide Golf Club, Cicero, IN

  13. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    2/6/2015 10:02 PM
    Christopher Thuer, CGCS said: I took my 12 year old son to his first night of 4h hunter education last night. After a few minutes the instructors announced for anyone with cc permits, except the state cop in the room in full uniform with his son, needed to leave their guns in their vehicles. We were in the second row and 3 dads in the first 2 rows got up to do so. I didn't turn around but John said about half the dads behind us did. We both commented on the way home how many there were and we had no idea.


    To me, that's scary. I hope no one forgot to lock their car. Remember what happened to the late David McCallum, when someone burgled his pick-up on the street and got his pistol. I don't understand how people feel safer in such an environment.



  14. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    2/7/2015 10:02 AM
    I have handguns for fun, but I don't keep ammo for them in the house. They are nice guns and if my daughters would get trained and carry them they are welcome to have them.



  15. Jason Baker
    Jason Baker avatar
    12 posts
    2/13/2015 12:02 PM
    Stephen Okula, CGCS said: Is it a common occurrence these days in the U.S. that a family sitting peacefully at home is suddenly attacked by a murderous intruder breaking into the house? Sounds like it must be pretty frequent as a lot of people are worried about defending themselves in such an instance.


    I work in an affluent Suburb of Little Rock. In An adjoining neighborhood where the houses begin at about $400,000 and go up from there, just last week, during the middle of the day, three men kicked in a man's door attempting to rob the house. The home owner had his hand gun with in reach and was able to persuade the intruders to leave quickly. He got the license plate number and the police caught the three with in 30 minutes. If the Home owner was not prepared, things would have ended very differently. This was a very random event, the intruders did not think anyone was home, but what would they have done if home owner was not armed???

    This type of thing has happened with increasing regularity in Little Rock. I doubt we are the only city with the problem.

    I have a CHCL, have had moderate training and I shoot for practice and recreation often and I carry frequently. On weekends that I work and am the first person here I always carry. I will continue to carry through my first inspection of the course. i then leave it locked in the truck for the day.
    In the past I have found unidentified man passed out out in the course restrooms, I have encountered poachers on our back nine, and several other trespassers of different levels of suspiciousness.
    Again, this is in an affluent suburb 20 miles outside the "City". The world is a scary place. Better to be prepared.



  16. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    2/14/2015 1:02 AM
    Jason Baker said:
    Stephen Okula, CGCS said: Is it a common occurrence these days in the U.S. that a family sitting peacefully at home is suddenly attacked by a murderous intruder breaking into the house? Sounds like it must be pretty frequent as a lot of people are worried about defending themselves in such an instance.


    I work in an affluent Suburb of Little Rock. In An adjoining neighborhood where the houses begin at about $400,000 and go up from there, just last week, during the middle of the day, three men kicked in a man's door attempting to rob the house. The home owner had his hand gun with in reach and was able to persuade the intruders to leave quickly. He got the license plate number and the police caught the three with in 30 minutes. If the Home owner was not prepared, things would have ended very differently. This was a very random event, the intruders did not think anyone was home, but what would they have done if home owner was not armed???

    This type of thing has happened with increasing regularity in Little Rock. I doubt we are the only city with the problem.

    I have a CHCL, have had moderate training and I shoot for practice and recreation often and I carry frequently. On weekends that I work and am the first person here I always carry. I will continue to carry through my first inspection of the course. i then leave it locked in the truck for the day.
    In the past I have found unidentified man passed out out in the course restrooms, I have encountered poachers on our back nine, and several other trespassers of different levels of suspiciousness.
    Again, this is in an affluent suburb 20 miles outside the "City". The world is a scary place. Better to be prepared.


    You mean Little Rock is a scary place. An attempted burglary, suspicious trespassers, poachers (What were they hunting on the golf course? I'd love for someone to poach our Canadian geese.) and there's hardly anything more dangerous than an unconscious, unidentified man in a toilet. You should have shot first and asked questions later. I'm making a mental note to avoid Arkansas.

    It's a broad assumption that the burglary would have "ended very differently" had the homeowner not been armed. The thieves were obviously not looking for confrontation, or they wouldn't have chosen what they thought was an unoccupied house. Were they armed? They might have fled just the same had the owner come out with a baseball bat, or simply shouted that he called the police. And if people will kick down the door to a house for larcenous reasons, they will certainly break into an unoccupied vehicle. Your gun is not safe there.



  17. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    2/14/2015 2:02 AM
    I think you're missing the point of Jason's post when he described the various encounters on the golf course. You never know what you will encounter. Most and probably all those encounters will end without incident but there's always the possibility it won't.

    As for the break-in, those are a lot of "ifs" you quote. I'm guessing the home owner is much happier with the gun than wondering, "what IF I didn't have the gun". But that's a guess.



  18. Jason Baker
    Jason Baker avatar
    12 posts
    2/14/2015 9:02 AM
    Stephen,
    We get it, you do not believe in guns. That is fine. But you asked; "Is it a common occurrence these days in the U.S. that a family sitting peacefully at home is suddenly attacked by a murderous intruder breaking into the house?"
    I answered that it is happening with more frequency in Little Rock, (and the majority of the Country as far as I can tell by the news) and I gave you a local anecdote to enhance my point.
    We do not know what would have happened if homeowner did not have a gun, but we do know that it ended safely Because he had a gun.

    Poachers hunt deer on our property, usually with cross bow but I have seen rifles.

    Unconscious men in a toilet at 4:30 am can quickly become irritated or scared and defensive men when they are woken up in said toilet by Superintendent.

    You can make light of these experiences, is it because you have never encountered a somewhat threatening circumstance? I hope you never are put in the situation that you might need to defend yourself. I have yet, and hope that I never am, to be threatened enough to show my weapon, let alone use it, but I have felt more secure knowing I had it if needed.

    And lastly Stephen, I mean the World is a Scary Place. It is best to be prepared; not paranoid, not meek, not an easy victim; nor aggressive, nor a bully, nor a vigilantly, just prepared.



  19. Larry Allan
    Larry Allan avatar
    0 posts
    2/14/2015 10:02 AM
    I'm in the process of reading a British police novel. I found it interesting that they refer to their protective vest as a "Stab Proof Vest" as opposed to "Bullet Proof"



  20. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    2/14/2015 11:02 AM
    Larry Allan said: I'm in the process of reading a British police novel. I found it interesting that they refer to their protective vest as a "Stab Proof Vest" as opposed to "Bullet Proof"


    Could come in handy if the thug already ran out bullets and was left only with his bayonet.



  21. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    2/14/2015 1:02 PM
    I have been working in golf course maintenance since 1972. In 42+ years on golf courses, I have never found myself in a situation where I thought a gun would help.

    That said, I have been working outside the U.S since 1990. It may be that America has grown exponentially more violent and dangerous since I left, but I doubt it. Statistics indicate that the crime rate is receding in the U.S.

    You like guns, that's fine, I get that. Go ahead and carry them around - it's all legal - but in my opinion they are effectively toys for you, something to play with and make you feel powerful, and you should stop making excuses like they're bound to save your life. They're more likely to take it.



  22. Curtis Nickerson
    Curtis Nickerson avatar
    0 posts
    2/18/2015 12:02 PM
    good grief, hasn't this dead horse been beaten enough already...we get it, guys that carry guns are sissy's that need a gun to feel powerful and adequate...and anyone that doesn't agree with your point of view is a small minded dolt... we get it... carry on...



  23. Keith Lamb
    Keith Lamb avatar
    3 posts
    2/18/2015 1:02 PM
    I just stay out of the University Park area when in Sarasota. Rough neighborhood.

    And don't break that Adams spreader. I need to use it again.



  24. Curtis Nickerson
    Curtis Nickerson avatar
    0 posts
    2/18/2015 1:02 PM
    LOL!!! Did you notice a wheel bearing issue with it? Makes a helluva noise from the right wheel? I think FH banged it up bringing it down here...



  25. Keith Lamb
    Keith Lamb avatar
    3 posts
    2/18/2015 2:02 PM
    Pop a couple caps in it.....or fix it and send FH the bill.



  26. Joel Rhodes
    Joel Rhodes avatar
    0 posts
    2/19/2015 7:02 AM
    Is America so bad now that people need to carry a gun everywhere they go to feel any sense of security? If this is the case, as I have read here, I think that America has some serious problems to address. I was last in America on July 2014. I visited the States of Georgia, Ohio, Michigan, Arkansas, Mississippi, New York and North Carolina. I did see some homeless people. I did see some poached eggs but I don't think that is the same thing.

    I did not have a gun and never felt threatened. I may have been uncomfortable once or twice. I do not think having a gun would have made any situation better.

    But, I now live in a country where everyone has health care, very few people have guns and the economy is good. I sit outside in the summer in a city and have breakfast with my wife and can hear five or six different languages being spoken. All without fear for my life. Maybe I am just naive. Maybe some in America are over reacting to things.

    In the end nothing will ever change peoples minds about guns. We all know it.



  27. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    2/19/2015 8:02 AM
    I think and you all know where I come from and which way I lean, but it seems this issue didn't really become an issue until President Obama got elected. In my opinion the fear mongers came out and all of a sudden we had to be armed and the president was going to take guns away and other hysterical hype. The funny thing is for most policies I feel the president has been pretty middle of the road, sometimes even to the right of things, and that includes health care, heck he took a right wing think tank health care idea and got it passed instead of working on a health care for all type of deal that the left preferred. Now on the immigration issue that might be more left leaning, I don't really understand that as clearly as others might. I guess a lot of what I mentioned is better left for new threads. Of course all my opinions and what do I know...

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  28. Frank McQuiggan
    Frank McQuiggan avatar
    2 posts
    2/20/2015 6:02 AM
    Dusty,

    Since I've been back here I have noticed considerable changes to what it was when I left as far as being more un easy about walking around. We both have walked the same ground and I can tell you that I felt a hell of a lot more secure walking in Wiesbaden in the middle of the night than I do here in the day light sometimes. I find myself being more cautious about my surroundings than over there. Constant looking over my shoulder, watching people as I walk around. You never know what is going to happen and that's the general feeling over here. I remember when my daughter and I came back in 2002 and she was only 13 we were at my parents house and she said she wanted to go to the playground right across the street and my mom forbade her unless an adult went with her. I looked at my mom and said what the hell its 50' from the porch, I was told to go take a look at the side steps of the school, and low and behold there sat about 20 kids smoking dope and carrying on right as the police drove through. So yes my friend the states has changed from what we grew up in and yes you are in a more secure place than here. Also since I've been back my car was broken into while it sat in my driveway. This is not the same place I grew up in even though I grew up here.



  29. Joel Rhodes
    Joel Rhodes avatar
    0 posts
    3/2/2015 5:03 AM
    Frank,
    I am sorry to hear that. I hope that all is well. Take care of yourself!



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