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Court TV

51 posts
  1. James Schmid
    James Schmid avatar
    1 posts
    4/4/2012 2:04 PM
    Dennis Cook said:
    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said:
    Dennis Cook said: NO ONE should have that kind of control over any other person


    Those who do not get health insurance cost those that do approximately $1200 per year.


    Well then Scott, maybe we need to look at making the cost of health care a little less expensive. Maybe eliminating frivilous lawsuits so the health care provider doesnt have to pay out the wazoo for insurance. Maybe having every individual be required to go over his bill before it goes to insurance to ensure that it is correct and eliminate all the double billing and billing for services that didn't even take place. That kind of crap happens everytime I go to the hospital and i have to call and get it fixed. Most people dont even look at it, they just let the insurance company pay it, because they dont have too. Well, I have called my insurance company several times to tell them not to pay something that was billed incorrectly so it saves them money. Its a small way to help keep premiums down. How about if you go to the ER for a non emergency, your going to pay for it yourself. If people would make an appt with their family doctor and go through the proper channels instead of running to the ER for every little thing, that would also help reduce the cost of health care. There are so many little things that we can do to help keep costs in line before we cram a health care mandate down everyones throat, but the dems don't care, they want the control. If they did care, they would have done all the little things first and exhausted all avenues to improve our current system before trying to take it over.



    Wouldn't these things be health care mandates?



  2. Dennis Cook
    Dennis Cook avatar
    1 posts
    4/5/2012 2:04 PM
    James Schmid said:
    Dennis Cook said:
    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said:
    Dennis Cook said: NO ONE should have that kind of control over any other person


    Those who do not get health insurance cost those that do approximately $1200 per year.


    Well then Scott, maybe we need to look at making the cost of health care a little less expensive. Maybe eliminating frivilous lawsuits so the health care provider doesnt have to pay out the wazoo for insurance. Maybe having every individual be required to go over his bill before it goes to insurance to ensure that it is correct and eliminate all the double billing and billing for services that didn't even take place. That kind of crap happens everytime I go to the hospital and i have to call and get it fixed. Most people dont even look at it, they just let the insurance company pay it, because they dont have too. Well, I have called my insurance company several times to tell them not to pay something that was billed incorrectly so it saves them money. Its a small way to help keep premiums down. How about if you go to the ER for a non emergency, your going to pay for it yourself. If people would make an appt with their family doctor and go through the proper channels instead of running to the ER for every little thing, that would also help reduce the cost of health care. There are so many little things that we can do to help keep costs in line before we cram a health care mandate down everyones throat, but the dems don't care, they want the control. If they did care, they would have done all the little things first and exhausted all avenues to improve our current system before trying to take it over.



    Wouldn't these things be health care mandates?


    James, the answer is no. Signing off on your bill to ensure accuracy before a third party pays the bill is not mandating I buy anything, just a requirement by the insurance companies that before they pay the bill, you need to verify its accuracy. No money out of anyones pocket. And if someone goes to the ER for a non emergency, they would pay there own bill because it was there choice to go there, instead of someone else being responsible for your idiocy



  3. Ronald Conard
    Ronald Conard avatar
    4 posts
    4/5/2012 3:04 PM
    Dennis Cook said:

    James, the answer is no. Signing off on your bill to ensure accuracy before a third party pays the bill is not mandating I buy anything, just a requirement by the insurance companies that before they pay the bill, you need to verify its accuracy. No money out of anyones pocket. And if someone goes to the ER for a non emergency, they would pay there own bill because it was there choice to go there, instead of someone else being responsible for your idiocy



    So you go to the E.R. for a pain in the chest and in the left arm and it turns out to be heartburn, then what? Are you an idiot or are you following common sense?



  4. James Schmid
    James Schmid avatar
    1 posts
    4/5/2012 3:04 PM
    Dennis Cook said:

    James, the answer is no. Signing off on your bill to ensure accuracy before a third party pays the bill is not mandating I buy anything, just a requirement by the insurance companies that before they pay the bill, you need to verify its accuracy. No money out of anyones pocket. And if someone goes to the ER for a non emergency, they would pay there own bill because it was there choice to go there, instead of someone else being responsible for your idiocy


    I suppose we have different understandings of the term "healthcare mandate", where mine would be a government command relating to healthcare.

    And your plan of signing off on your bill before the third party pays seems to me that it could just as well increase the cost of health care as lower it. Who is going to run, audit, enfoce, and regulate this whole system of authorizations? Besides the people who didnt care about it in the first place are just going to sign it anyway without looking at it.

    and I'm with Ron on the other one. If I go to the emergency room its an emergency for me.



  5. Dennis Cook
    Dennis Cook avatar
    1 posts
    4/6/2012 6:04 AM
    Ron, if you have a pain in the chest, that is a genuine emergency. If you go there because your toe nail fell off that is not. I have been in there so many times and hear people say, "well I have this cough and I have had it for about a week now". Oh so this cough all of a sudden became life threatening to go to the ER? They should have made an appt with their family doctor. The hospital in my town has had so much of this, they create a new wing called fastrak ER, for all the non emergencies.

    There is way too many people that use the ER for their basic health care and it ends up costing us way to much money.

    Now as far as the verification of your bill, you just do it like this. Hospital sends you completed bill with all the procedures and codes on it. You go over it, verify its accuracy, sign it and forward to your insurance company. If its not correct, you call the hospital or medical provider and discuss, they fix and send you a new bill, then you sign and forward to your insurance company. Small little responsibility for the patient who receives the care, but could save a lot of money in the long run for your insurance carrier, which in the long run keeps your premiums down. The other benefit to it, is that the patient gets to see what each procedure and individual items costs. People do not know what stuff costs today, because a third party pays the bill. I got charged $88 for three band-aids (the ones that are about 3" wide and 5" long) by my hospital when I had a procedure. I could have bought a ten pack at Wal-Mart for around $5. So i called the billing dept and they said that the insurance company will just pay it because its within the acceptable range for a bandage. My response was, "How much if I pay cash?" She noted that there was a different price if you pay for it yourself. So I asked her to rebill it to me, so I could pay it. The original bill was around $18,000, the new bill she sent to me was only $8000 and the Band-aids were rebilled at $15 for the three. This was a little more in line with reality. So when I got the bill, I faxed it to my insurance provider and they paid the $8,000. How many times a day, throughout the country does an insurance company get overcharged by a hospital and they pay it? No wonder insurance premiums are thru the roof, because there is no accountability, because the patient usually doesnt see the bill and the insurance company has no clue what the hospital provided for the patient. This gives the hospitals the leisure to charge what they want and add things to the bill. By having the bill go through the patient first, the person who was actually given the care can verify its accuracy before it goes to the insurance company. Wow what a novel idea to eliminate fraud, double billing, overcharging, etc.



  6. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    4/6/2012 11:04 AM
    Dennis Cook said: Ron, if you have a pain in the chest, that is a genuine emergency. If you go there because your toe nail fell off that is not. I have been in there so many times and hear people say, "well I have this cough and I have had it for about a week now". Oh so this cough all of a sudden became life threatening to go to the ER? They should have made an appt with their family doctor. The hospital in my town has had so much of this, they create a new wing called fastrak ER, for all the non emergencies.

    There is way too many people that use the ER for their basic health care and it ends up costing us way to much money.

    Now as far as the verification of your bill, you just do it like this. Hospital sends you completed bill with all the procedures and codes on it. You go over it, verify its accuracy, sign it and forward to your insurance company. If its not correct, you call the hospital or medical provider and discuss, they fix and send you a new bill, then you sign and forward to your insurance company. Small little responsibility for the patient who receives the care, but could save a lot of money in the long run for your insurance carrier, which in the long run keeps your premiums down. The other benefit to it, is that the patient gets to see what each procedure and individual items costs. People do not know what stuff costs today, because a third party pays the bill. I got charged $88 for three band-aids (the ones that are about 3" wide and 5" long) by my hospital when I had a procedure. I could have bought a ten pack at Wal-Mart for around $5. So i called the billing dept and they said that the insurance company will just pay it because its within the acceptable range for a bandage. My response was, "How much if I pay cash?" She noted that there was a different price if you pay for it yourself. So I asked her to rebill it to me, so I could pay it. The original bill was around $18,000, the new bill she sent to me was only $8000 and the Band-aids were rebilled at $15 for the three. This was a little more in line with reality. So when I got the bill, I faxed it to my insurance provider and they paid the $8,000. How many times a day, throughout the country does an insurance company get overcharged by a hospital and they pay it? No wonder insurance premiums are thru the roof, because there is no accountability, because the patient usually doesnt see the bill and the insurance company has no clue what the hospital provided for the patient. This gives the hospitals the leisure to charge what they want and add things to the bill. By having the bill go through the patient first, the person who was actually given the care can verify its accuracy before it goes to the insurance company. Wow what a novel idea to eliminate fraud, double billing, overcharging, etc.


    Dennis, people use the ER for their basic health care because they don't have insurance and don't have a family doctor, probably because they don't have insurance.....That is where urgent care could come in, we use it when we can't get into our family doctor or someone has a 101 fever on a Saturday morning. If we do use an ER for a non emergency, it cost us $100 right of the top.

    Good explanation about the billing, which goes to who really is running and ruining health care in my opinion, why didn't the insurance company complain about the $88 for band aids? They are the ones paying for it, (unless your deductible hasn't been met yet) of course maybe they end up paying $15 too because of their discount insurance gets. My wife had a procedure cost over $40,000, when the discount was applied it ended up at $8,000. Why not just charge what the correct cost is?

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  7. Dennis Cook
    Dennis Cook avatar
    1 posts
    4/6/2012 1:04 PM
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said:
    Dennis Cook said: Ron, if you have a pain in the chest, that is a genuine emergency. If you go there because your toe nail fell off that is not. I have been in there so many times and hear people say, "well I have this cough and I have had it for about a week now". Oh so this cough all of a sudden became life threatening to go to the ER? They should have made an appt with their family doctor. The hospital in my town has had so much of this, they create a new wing called fastrak ER, for all the non emergencies.

    There is way too many people that use the ER for their basic health care and it ends up costing us way to much money.

    Now as far as the verification of your bill, you just do it like this. Hospital sends you completed bill with all the procedures and codes on it. You go over it, verify its accuracy, sign it and forward to your insurance company. If its not correct, you call the hospital or medical provider and discuss, they fix and send you a new bill, then you sign and forward to your insurance company. Small little responsibility for the patient who receives the care, but could save a lot of money in the long run for your insurance carrier, which in the long run keeps your premiums down. The other benefit to it, is that the patient gets to see what each procedure and individual items costs. People do not know what stuff costs today, because a third party pays the bill. I got charged $88 for three band-aids (the ones that are about 3" wide and 5" long) by my hospital when I had a procedure. I could have bought a ten pack at Wal-Mart for around $5. So i called the billing dept and they said that the insurance company will just pay it because its within the acceptable range for a bandage. My response was, "How much if I pay cash?" She noted that there was a different price if you pay for it yourself. So I asked her to rebill it to me, so I could pay it. The original bill was around $18,000, the new bill she sent to me was only $8000 and the Band-aids were rebilled at $15 for the three. This was a little more in line with reality. So when I got the bill, I faxed it to my insurance provider and they paid the $8,000. How many times a day, throughout the country does an insurance company get overcharged by a hospital and they pay it? No wonder insurance premiums are thru the roof, because there is no accountability, because the patient usually doesnt see the bill and the insurance company has no clue what the hospital provided for the patient. This gives the hospitals the leisure to charge what they want and add things to the bill. By having the bill go through the patient first, the person who was actually given the care can verify its accuracy before it goes to the insurance company. Wow what a novel idea to eliminate fraud, double billing, overcharging, etc.


    Dennis, people use the ER for their basic health care because they don't have insurance and don't have a family doctor, probably because they don't have insurance.....That is where urgent care could come in, we use it when we can't get into our family doctor or someone has a 101 fever on a Saturday morning. If we do use an ER for a non emergency, it cost us $100 right of the top.

    Good explanation about the billing, which goes to who really is running and ruining health care in my opinion, why didn't the insurance company complain about the $88 for band aids? They are the ones paying for it, (unless your deductible hasn't been met yet) of course maybe they end up paying $15 too because of their discount insurance gets. My wife had a procedure cost over $40,000, when the discount was applied it ended up at $8,000. Why not just charge what the correct cost is?

    Mel


    Mel,

    Yes it would be great if the hospitals had a set charge regardless of who is paying. This is one of the small things that can be done to health care to make it more affordable. It shouldn't be legal to charge the insurance company more than they would charge me for the procedure, but they do it everyday



  8. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    4/6/2012 4:04 PM
    Dennis Cook said: Mel,

    Yes it would be great if the hospitals had a set charge regardless of who is paying. This is one of the small things that can be done to health care to make it more affordable. It shouldn't be legal to charge the insurance company more than they would charge me for the procedure, but they do it everyday


    Dennis, which goes to show, health care did and does need reformed.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  9. Dennis Cook
    Dennis Cook avatar
    1 posts
    4/7/2012 7:04 AM
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said:
    Dennis Cook said: Mel,

    Yes it would be great if the hospitals had a set charge regardless of who is paying. This is one of the small things that can be done to health care to make it more affordable. It shouldn't be legal to charge the insurance company more than they would charge me for the procedure, but they do it everyday


    Dennis, which goes to show, health care did and does need reformed.

    Mel


    Mel,
    The right had many of these ideas as health care reform, but the left didnt even want to discuss them. It was Mandate it or nothing.



  10. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    4/7/2012 9:04 AM
    Dennis Cook said:
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said:
    Dennis Cook said: Mel,

    Yes it would be great if the hospitals had a set charge regardless of who is paying. This is one of the small things that can be done to health care to make it more affordable. It shouldn't be legal to charge the insurance company more than they would charge me for the procedure, but they do it everyday


    Dennis, which goes to show, health care did and does need reformed.

    Mel


    Mel,
    The right had many of these ideas as health care reform, but the left didnt even want to discuss them. It was Mandate it or nothing.


    Dennis, the right is the one that had the mandate idea, it goes at least all the way back to Nixon. Basically except for a few things, the health care reform followed many principals and ideas from the right, heck the plan passed in MA, when Romney was governor served as the blueprint for the ACA.

    It is of my opinion, the right hated it once the current president got it passed, only because they want everything he does to fail, so they can get back into power. Is the ACA perfect? Of course not, Sean can point out many of it's failings, but because each side wants the power, nothing is going to get fixed for the betterment of us the people.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  11. Dennis Cook
    Dennis Cook avatar
    1 posts
    4/9/2012 6:04 AM
    Mel, there may have been a few repubs who were misguided in the past, but they didnt ram it down the people throats when they had a majority in both houses, because it was only a small amount of people that would think this is the right thing to do. The majority of Americans do not agree with this policy whether its politically benefical or not



  12. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    4/9/2012 6:04 AM
    I find the presidents recent interview amusing where he stated he found it uncomprehensible the court might overturn Obamacare by a 5-4 vote........it is way to important for that to happen. Guess he doesn;t remember the high court and Row vs Wade......5-4 I belive.



  13. Dennis Cook
    Dennis Cook avatar
    1 posts
    4/9/2012 12:04 PM
    Right on David, its ok for the court to do it when its policitally beneficial to them.

    There still screaming about the Al Gore deal even though the recount clearly showed Bush won.



  14. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    4/9/2012 10:04 PM
    Dennis Cook said: Mel, there may have been a few repubs who were misguided in the past, but they didnt ram it down the people throats when they had a majority in both houses, because it was only a small amount of people that would think this is the right thing to do. The majority of Americans do not agree with this policy whether its politically benefical or not


    Dennis a few republicans? From Nixon to Newt, party leaders all, hell, even your high and mighty Regan who would be to far to the left that he would not be elected now had mentioned the need for it. Heck not only have we fallen behind the world in math and science, (anyone catch those Exxon commercials during the Masters?) we have also not learned our own history. But as I look back those guys didn't have the majority in both houses back in those days.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  15. Jon Gansen
    Jon Gansen avatar
    1 posts
    4/9/2012 11:04 PM
    "Heck not only have we fallen behind the world in math and science, "

    I hope your not saying our health care is behind the rest of the world because its not government run??



  16. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    4/10/2012 6:04 AM
    Jon Gansen said: "Heck not only have we fallen behind the world in math and science, "

    I hope your not saying our health care is behind the rest of the world because its not government run??


    It is a fact that the US Govt (Medicaid and Medicare) through price controls pays much less for healthcare than the rest of us. Other industrialized countries pay nearly half per person for healthcare with better results. Some things like the military, police, prisons and healthcare should not be profit oriented.



  17. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    4/10/2012 6:04 AM
    No Jon,

    I was referring to others knowledge of history.

    Scott,

    I believe in a perfect world non-profit health care would be great, but many of our investments in the US relies on innovative techniques and machines made by huge corporations that we want those to make money to support our retirement investments. And besides the two medical groups here in our town, I believe both being non-profit, still charges the same as other areas if not more due to lack of competition and they use the "profits" to make huge additions, our medical providers just finished two years ago a major addition to their hospital, my wife was in a beautiful suite after her surgery. They are currently building a new orthopedic hospital on the south side of town. The other provider in our town didn't do much with their rooms, (mom spent a bunch of time there the last year) but they built a huge new emergency section, so large they only operate about a third of it. There really does need to be a balance though in my opinion.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  18. Dennis Cook
    Dennis Cook avatar
    1 posts
    4/11/2012 6:04 AM
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said: No Jon,

    I was referring to others knowledge of history.

    Scott,

    I believe in a perfect world non-profit health care would be great, but many of our investments in the US relies on innovative techniques and machines made by huge corporations that we want those to make money to support our retirement investments. And besides the two medical groups here in our town, I believe both being non-profit, still charges the same as other areas if not more due to lack of competition and they use the "profits" to make huge additions, our medical providers just finished two years ago a major addition to their hospital, my wife was in a beautiful suite after her surgery. They are currently building a new orthopedic hospital on the south side of town. The other provider in our town didn't do much with their rooms, (mom spent a bunch of time there the last year) but they built a huge new emergency section, so large they only operate about a third of it. There really does need to be a balance though in my opinion.

    Mel

    The problem with non profit, is that it stifles there ability to develop new ideas and products. There is no incentive to do it and there would not be the investment to do it either, because as a non profit its not supposed to make you money. Most hospitals these days are expanding with grants and using there profits to dump back into their capital to stay in accordance with non profit regulations.



  19. Stephen Okula
    Stephen Okula avatar
    3 posts
    4/11/2012 4:04 PM
    Dennis Cook said:
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said: No Jon,

    I was referring to others knowledge of history.

    Scott,

    I believe in a perfect world non-profit health care would be great, but many of our investments in the US relies on innovative techniques and machines made by huge corporations that we want those to make money to support our retirement investments. And besides the two medical groups here in our town, I believe both being non-profit, still charges the same as other areas if not more due to lack of competition and they use the "profits" to make huge additions, our medical providers just finished two years ago a major addition to their hospital, my wife was in a beautiful suite after her surgery. They are currently building a new orthopedic hospital on the south side of town. The other provider in our town didn't do much with their rooms, (mom spent a bunch of time there the last year) but they built a huge new emergency section, so large they only operate about a third of it. There really does need to be a balance though in my opinion.

    Mel

    The problem with non profit, is that it stifles there ability to develop new ideas and products. There is no incentive to do it and there would not be the investment to do it either, because as a non profit its not supposed to make you money. Most hospitals these days are expanding with grants and using there profits to dump back into their capital to stay in accordance with non profit regulations.


    I don't believe that money is the only incentive anyone ever has for improving medical care, devising a new procedure, formulating pharmaceuticals, or becoming a doctor, nurse, or pharmacist. There are many, many, people dedicated to helping others with no thought of the profit motive. I personally know a few, two of whom are in my own family.



  20. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    4/11/2012 5:04 PM
    Stephen Okula, CGCS said: I don't believe that money is the only incentive anyone ever has for improving medical care, devising a new procedure, formulating pharmaceuticals, or becoming a doctor, nurse, or pharmacist. There are many, many, people dedicated to helping others with no thought of the profit motive. I personally know a few, two of whom are in my own family.


    My family doctor when I was a kid lived in a full blown mansion on the beach. His son is a family doctor in the same office and cannot afford to live in his father's mansion. I make more than my Dad correcting for inflation and I cannot afford to live in the house where I grew up even though it is for sale for 30% of the price it could have sold for in the last decade. People are still striving to do well even though the conservatives war on the middle class has gone quite well for them.

    I have a brilliant friend who invented a vitamin shot that will save the eye sight of hundreds of thousands of children, probably millions over time. He got a bonus from his company and an award from the World Health Organization, but the invention is not going to make him or his company rich. These people need to be compensated well, but ego is also a motivator, not to mention there are great people. Why does the nurse say nice things to the patient while she is emptying his bed pan? Why do workers go to hospice each day? I am pretty sure it is not for the money.

    There was a time when superintendents were paid 10% of whatever the maintenance budget was including capital purchases. There was a time with pros got $1 per round, the range and the pro shop. Times changed and competition is higher than ever.



  21. Jon Gansen
    Jon Gansen avatar
    1 posts
    4/11/2012 8:04 PM
    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said:
    Stephen Okula, CGCS said: I don't believe that money is the only incentive anyone ever has for improving medical care, devising a new procedure, formulating pharmaceuticals, or becoming a doctor, nurse, or pharmacist. There are many, many, people dedicated to helping others with no thought of the profit motive. I personally know a few, two of whom are in my own family.


    My family doctor when I was a kid lived in a full blown mansion on the beach. His son is a family doctor in the same office and cannot afford to live in his father's mansion. I make more than my Dad correcting for inflation and I cannot afford to live in the house where I grew up even though it is for sale for 30% of the price it could have sold for in the last decade. People are still striving to do well even though the conservatives war on the middle class has gone quite well for them.

    I have a brilliant friend who invented a vitamin shot that will save the eye sight of hundreds of thousands of children, probably millions over time. He got a bonus from his company and an award from the World Health Organization, but the invention is not going to make him or his company rich. These people need to be compensated well, but ego is also a motivator, not to mention there are great people. Why does the nurse say nice things to the patient while she is emptying his bed pan? Why do workers go to hospice each day? I am pretty sure it is not for the money.

    There was a time when superintendents were paid 10% of whatever the maintenance budget was including capital purchases. There was a time with pros got $1 per round, the range and the pro shop. Times changed and competition is higher than ever.



    conservatives war on the middle class has gone quite well for them.?? Fear mongering!

    You must include President Clinton and a host of Democrats for voting for and signing into law NAFTA..



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