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1. McCallum David K

   
   3/26/2012 1:03 PM

   Well today began 3 days of arguments (but with class I might add) in front of the Supreme Court over the presidents health care bill. It will be very interesting to see what transpires. For all of you young guys this is the first time since the mid 1960's such a three day argument of opposing sides has taken place in front of the Court. Would love to have one of the 40 seats each day to witness and listen to the opposing counsels. Both are highly qualified have argued before the Court previously. Paul Clement for the state of Florida and the other 25 states that filed suit and Donald Verrilli whom will argue for the administrations side. FYI........Clement likes Nirvana and Verrilli is a Dead header

   
   
   
   
2. Sandy Clark

   

   0 posts
   
   3/27/2012 3:03 PM

   I didn't personally hear it but I have read today that the government mandate was taking some pretty hard hitting questions and comments from Kennedy, who was considered to be the swing vote on this issue. It stated that Ginsburg, Kagan and Sotamayer would vote the company line which is kind of sad. Wasn't the concept of these judges to all be non-biased and not show political leanings? It will be interesting to follow!

   
   
   
   
3. Wahlin Scott B

   
   3/27/2012 6:03 PM

   Sandy Clark, CGCS said: I didn't personally hear it but I have read today that the government mandate was taking some pretty hard hitting questions and comments from Kennedy, who was considered to be the swing vote on this issue. It stated that Ginsburg, Kagan and Sotamayer would vote the company line which is kind of sad. Wasn't the concept of these judges to all be non-biased and not show political leanings? It will be interesting to follow!

   
   
   I am not following closely, but I did read that one of the conservative judges said that maybe we should require people to get cell phones because they may need to call for help one day, and another say we should require people to make burial arrangements. I agree with the second one.

   
   
   
   
4. Keith Pegg

   

   0 posts
   
   3/27/2012 7:03 PM

   I have always had health care and some companies have paid it and some not, I have always kept it for my family and myself. I am 100% in favor of "Obama care" because I understand that 30 million people in America do not have health care and because of that I pay about $1,000 more per year for the free care they get. Maybe everyone would better off with no care given, if you can't pay then you die.
   
   Keith

   
   
   
   
5. Wallace Jeffrey V

   
   3/27/2012 8:03 PM

   Keith Pegg said: I have always had health care and some companies have paid it and some not, I have always kept it for my family and myself. I am 100% in favor of "Obama care" because I understand that 30 million people in America do not have health care and because of that I pay about $1,000 more per year for the free care they get. Maybe everyone would better off with no care given, if you can't pay then you die.
   
   Keith

   
   
   Except for me. If I can't pay, I want you guys to pony up.
   
   This isn't looking good for the administration. They sent the wrong lawyer.....the justices are eating him alive.
   
   I know this is hardly a first, but I'm still uncomfortable with the fact that nine unelected individuals can undo what an elected Congress voted into law. Yes, they are allowed to "interpret" what the Congress meant when they passed a law, but Congress should be the branch that undoes what it's done. Or is that....undood what it dud?
   
   Now, before I get a lesson in government, I do understand that they can also decide if a law is unconstitutional. I'm just sayin'....

   
   
   
   
6. Steven Kurta

   

   2 posts
   
   3/28/2012 5:03 AM

   "Free" care is substandard and commonly choiceless care. Your mileage may vary depending on your chosen country (Thailand, etc.)
   No fault of your own, Canadian doodz, but your brand of socialized service is broke. I'm for whatever doesn't look or operate like Canada's system. I've had extensive and personal experience with both and, yeah. No.
   Socialized medicine is a feel good concept. Beyond that, I think it breaks down when faced with our special North American mix of 1st world class/race/prejudice. We're idiots that way. Very much a "me first" culture in all things.
   Not that it doesn't work anywhere, saying it's got a long way to go in the west.

   
   
   
   
7. McCallum David K

   
   3/28/2012 6:03 AM

   Intersting point Jeff and well taken but on the other hand............ perhaps Congress has overstepped its bounds in writing into law the individual mandate. History is on the side of the Court that forcing a contract under duress is not constitutional and that is essentially what has happened with the Obamacare plan. The separation of powers is plain........Congress writes and enacts a law.......the Court interprets the Constitutionality of that law.............we do (at present at least) still operate under our constitution. The findings of contracts under duress date back as far as 1799 as being uncontitutional..........not the first time it has been ruled on.
   
   One way or the other we will know by June when the ruling should come down.......in the heat of the campaign.

   
   
   
   
8. Jon Gansen

   

   1 posts
   
   3/28/2012 7:03 AM

   Scalia had the comment that according to this law government could virtually regulate and make you buy anything deemed necessary by the government. Liberal Justice Brier asked why there was not a government agency for death and burial in the bill. From what I gathered that was being sarcastic. What is coming to light for me is the huge power this could leave future congressional bodies in dictating our lives and taking individual liberties.

   
   
   
   
9. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   3/28/2012 8:03 AM

   Just to chime in on Scott's comments about burial arrangements. I have to say one of the best things we did before my mom's passing. She had bought the plots when dad died and then when she was sick a year ago we made her arrangements. Allowed her to have Vince Gill playing at visitation and her two songs she wanted at the service. We had a pretty stress free meeting just to iron out details.
   
   But I like the fact that was our choice.
   
   As to the health care bill, I also am not a big fan of the mandate but as I understand it (I think), that is part of why the ACA would work, I did hear that part of the bill only affects about 2 to 4 % of the people.
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
10. Wahlin Scott B

    
    3/28/2012 8:03 AM

    Besides heathcare, what other forms of commerce is the government required to provide for you if you choose not to provide it for yourself?

    
    
    
    
11. McCallum David K

    
    3/28/2012 8:03 AM

    Hate to break more bad news...........like me, tolerate me or hate me........you guys are paying for my burial. I ain't spending a nickel other than the cheapest urn the governement has to offer........I am all for socialized burials.

    
    
    
    
12. Ronald Conard

    

    4 posts
    
    3/28/2012 9:03 AM

    David McCallum said: Hate to break more bad news...........like me, tolerate me or hate me........you guys are paying for my burial. I ain't spending a nickel other than the cheapest urn the governement has to offer........I am all for socialized burials.

    
    
    Me too. Just throw me on the desert and let the vultures pick me clean. I couldn't care less. Plus, it'd give them a good, albeit stringy meal.

    
    
    
    
13. Wallace Jeffrey V

    
    3/28/2012 11:03 AM

    David McCallum said: Intersting point Jeff and well taken but on the other hand............ perhaps Congress has overstepped its bounds in writing into law the individual mandate. History is on the side of the Court that forcing a contract under duress is not constitutional and that is essentially what has happened with the Obamacare plan. The separation of powers is plain........Congress writes and enacts a law.......the Court interprets the Constitutionality of that law.............we do (at present at least) still operate under our constitution. The findings of contracts under duress date back as far as 1799 as being uncontitutional..........not the first time it has been ruled on.
    
    One way or the other we will know by June when the ruling should come down.......in the heat of the campaign.

    
    
    Dave,
    
    We had five hundred and thirty-some of the best and brightest in our country debating this, along with 75 million interns doing research and getting coffee, and not one of them checked the Constitution? They ARE the best and brightest, right? I mean, we didn't elect idiots. That would be stupid.
    
    If this goes south, I'm moving back to Thailand Etc. Health care is awesome. Food's good too. And Ron, what you're suggesting is disgusting.....and probably illegal in Wyoming. Move to Tibet before you die.

    
    
    
    
14. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    3/28/2012 11:03 AM

    David McCallum said: Hate to break more bad news...........like me, tolerate me or hate me........you guys are paying for my burial. I ain't spending a nickel other than the cheapest urn the government has to offer........I am all for socialized burials.

    
    
    Dave what are you doing with your metal plate the government gives you? I think my dad has two, one at the plots they bought in Florida around 1981 or something and the one he got in Missouri where he is at. Damn government waste....same with the honor guard. (Although when done well like at my dad's, the most stirring tribute ever, it still chokes me up when I remember it, and those young soldiers, so proud of them).
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
15. Sandy Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    3/28/2012 12:03 PM

    Being so attached to the ocean and many years of surfing, I just want my carcass tossed in the ocean in an area full of Great White Sharks! I could be one with nature. My wife isn't too keen on my idea. The few excerpts I heard of yesterdays proceedings sounded like the government lawyers were stumbling through their answers to the judges. If I was a betting man which I am not (to cheap), I would be wagering on defeat of the gov. mandate based on what little I have heard.

    
    
    
    
16. McCallum David K

    
    3/28/2012 2:03 PM

    Did not know I got a name plate too Mel. Just know if I choose they are responsible for my burial expenses.....I will be cremated (good thing my mother is not around to hear that comment) and the wife or son can toss the ashes where they choose.........flush me if they want and turn up some cold ones.

    
    
    
    
17. Wahlin Scott B

    
    3/28/2012 2:03 PM

    I donated my mine to the Miller School of Medicine at UM. My family should get $1000.

    
    
    
    
18. Wahlin Scott B

    
    3/28/2012 3:03 PM

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/01/17/congress-passes-socialized-medicine-and-mandates-health-insurance-in-1798/

    
    
    
    
19. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    3/28/2012 3:03 PM

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/01/17/congress-passes-socialized-medicine-and-mandates-health-insurance-in-1798/

    
    
    Interesting article Scott, thanks for posting.
    
    Also heard this about the mandate, the republicans really didn't go against it at first (of course not, it was their idea to begin with) until the Tea Party started complaining, then the republicans all jumped on board.
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
20. Wahlin Scott B

    
    3/28/2012 3:03 PM

    Brocolli, blue eyes, cell phones, burial insurance and other stupid, lazy thinking from Supreme Court Justices and the news outlets say the Administration's Attorney is not up for this?

    
    
    
    
21. Steven Kurta

    

    2 posts
    
    3/28/2012 4:03 PM

    The cynic in me is wondering if the defense of this wasn't a planned flop from Obama's team.
    Spidey senses are tingling. Something's cooking. They wouldn't have rolled over on it so easy if they didn't have a plan B up their sleeve.

    
    
    
    
22. Wahlin Scott B

    
    3/28/2012 4:03 PM

    It sounds to me liked forced commerce was the issue. We are already okay government run Social Security and Medicare, could these justices be holding out for single payer healthcare?

    
    
    
    
23. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    3/28/2012 5:03 PM

    They seem to be getting hammered. I would just like to chime in once again with a personal story...my wife had health care insurance through her employer and one day they announced that they would no longer provide insurance to their employees. We went out into the marketplace and tried to buy insurance for her and because of previous medical conditions and our age, [u">they would not sell it to me.[/u"> All of this "buy it yourself" talk is nonsense if you are a willing buyer and the sellers flat out won't sell it to you.
    Access to affordable health care should not just be for the wealthy and the healthy.
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve

    
    
    
    
24. Wallace Jeffrey V

    
    3/28/2012 8:03 PM

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: I donated my mine to the Miller School of Medicine at UM. My family should get $1000.

    
    
    You own a mine? Wow....

    
    
    
    
25. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    3/28/2012 8:03 PM

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: They seem to be getting hammered. I would just like to chime in once again with a personal story...my wife had health care insurance through her employer and one day they announced that they would no longer provide insurance to their employees. We went out into the marketplace and tried to buy insurance for her and because of previous medical conditions and our age, [u">they would not sell it to me.[/u"> All of this "buy it yourself" talk is nonsense if you are a willing buyer and the sellers flat out won't sell it to you.
    Access to affordable health care should not just be for the wealthy and the healthy.
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve

    
    
    Steve's issue along with many others like it was one reason something needed to be done, and I know of many other issues that people would have proves it as well, at least the president was willing to try to get something done. Just my opinion.
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
26. McCallum David K

    
    3/29/2012 6:03 AM

    James Carville of Louisiana and the lead strategist of the Clinton administration gave an interview yesterday saying if the Democrats (Obama admin) lose this battle in the Supreme Court it may be the single best thing to happen to the party in a long long time. He predicted ever sprialing health cost in the very year future to force further reform. Who knows...........Jimmy is a little looney but sometimes he hits it on the head.

    
    
    
    
27. McCallum David K

    
    3/29/2012 6:03 AM

    Hope is was a gold mine.........currently selling at $1657 an ounce........coal is a no no.

    
    
    
    
28. Dennis Cook

    

    1 posts
    
    4/4/2012 6:04 AM

    I guess if they can make us buy insurance they can make us buy anything. That is the precedent this will set and it will give future congresses unlimited power to control our lives. They will end up controlling what you drive, what you eat, where you have to go to school, what clothing you have to buy, etc. Yeah i can see it now, "NOPE, you can't buy that T-shirt anymore, SORRY, it wasn't made in a union shop. Oh, SORRY, cant send you kid to a private school anymore, you have to send them through OUR endoctrination centers that we control. You can't eat that Big Mac, because it costs the govt too much for the health care to pay for your clogged arteries."
    
    My gosh, before you know it, were all gonna be wearing the same damn uniform, marching in unison down the street, and yelling ALL HAIL OBAMA.
    
    NO ONE should have that kind of control over any other person

    
    
    
    
29. Wahlin Scott B

    
    4/4/2012 7:04 AM

    Dennis Cook said: NO ONE should have that kind of control over any other person

    
    
    Those who do not get health insurance cost those that do approximately $1200 per year.

    
    
    
    
30. Dennis Cook

    

    1 posts
    
    4/4/2012 2:04 PM

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said:

    Dennis Cook said: NO ONE should have that kind of control over any other person

    
    
    Those who do not get health insurance cost those that do approximately $1200 per year.

    
    
    Well then Scott, maybe we need to look at making the cost of health care a little less expensive. Maybe eliminating frivilous lawsuits so the health care provider doesnt have to pay out the wazoo for insurance. Maybe having every individual be required to go over his bill before it goes to insurance to ensure that it is correct and eliminate all the double billing and billing for services that didn't even take place. That kind of crap happens everytime I go to the hospital and i have to call and get it fixed. Most people dont even look at it, they just let the insurance company pay it, because they dont have too. Well, I have called my insurance company several times to tell them not to pay something that was billed incorrectly so it saves them money. Its a small way to help keep premiums down. How about if you go to the ER for a non emergency, your going to pay for it yourself. If people would make an appt with their family doctor and go through the proper channels instead of running to the ER for every little thing, that would also help reduce the cost of health care. There are so many little things that we can do to help keep costs in line before we cram a health care mandate down everyones throat, but the dems don't care, they want the control. If they did care, they would have done all the little things first and exhausted all avenues to improve our current system before trying to take it over.