A view from an undecided independent.

Ronald Conard

4 posts

11/7/2012 8:11 AM

So I walk into the voting booth completely undecided, or at least I thought I was undecided, as to who I was going to vote for in almost all partisan races. Then it hit me. I pulled the trigger for all Democrats. Why? Simply too much anger, exclusion, and vitriol on the right.

The Republicans really need to purger themselves of the far right-wing excluders because, believe it or not, to independents like me, it's a huge turnoff. Inclusion not exclusion. Also, the hypocrisy on issues of privacy is comical amongst many on the right-wing.

You can argue my viewpoint all you want. It may be wrong. But it's my perception of things and instead of arguing it the Republicans should change it.

Melvin Waldron

43 posts

11/7/2012 9:11 AM

Ron, I have to agree with a lot of the assessments you made. Even those that might be seen as moderates and if they are lucky enough to make it through the primary process (Gov. Romney) have provided enough sound bites from the primary to make one wonder what really are they for.

Even though I usually pull for democrats, I try to look at the person not the party, I found it the same as you yesterday only crossing party lines once on a local county race, (where I had a choice, some of our local races, didn't even have a democrat running) where I thought the guy was more qualified. I did leave a few blank as I didn't approve of the republican for some of his social views, yet the democrat wasn't qualified, (that I think was a case in the primaries, the guy had won because he was first on the ballot).

Hopefully all those elected will work together, and maybe we need to start letter writing to remind them to do that.

Mel

Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

Steve Nelson

0 posts

11/7/2012 9:11 AM

View from a life long Republican. We got our butts kicked again. Time to quit pandering the Grand Old Party to the tea party, radio fueled belligerents, and bible thumpers. Party of 'no' isn't working. Ron is right, inclusion not exclusion wins elections. Win on broad ideas, not minutiae. Time to search through the storage unit and find Ron Reagans big tent. Better vetted canditates too- it takes a real leader to prop up that big tent.

Trevor Monreal

5 posts

11/7/2012 10:11 AM

Excuse me...but I would think that running on the idea of a smaller, less intrusive government while pledging to work with the other side to control the debt and government deficits was very broad??
And, who was it exactly that told Eric Cantor (Jan, 2009) and the rest of the republicans during a bipartisan meeting to come up with a solution for the country's economic mess,"Elections have consequences and Eric, I won".
Does that sound inclusive?
I'm afraid it is just the opposite.
Romney campaigned on big ideas and solutions to the country's problems.
President Obama campaigned (extremely effectively) on minute issues and won.
The war on women, big bird, abortion...
It is no longer, "The economy, stupid".
I hate to say it but I don't think Reagan's big tent would have attracted any more voters this election.
The country has changed. It's no longer "What you can do for your country" but rather, what can the government do for me.

Keith Fellenstein

0 posts

11/7/2012 10:11 AM

Steve Nelson, CGCS said: View from a life long Republican. We got our butts kicked again. Time to quit pandering the Grand Old Party to the tea party, radio fueled belligerents, and bible thumpers. Party of 'no' isn't working. Ron is right, inclusion not exclusion wins elections. Win on broad ideas, not minutiae. Time to search through the storage unit and find Ron Reagans big tent. Better vetted canditates too- it takes a real leader to prop up that big tent.

Not arguing, as a long time Republican voter myself, I am disappointed with some wings of the party and the party platform. If you look at the popular vote though, the country is fairly evenly split. I wouldn't call that getting our butts kicked. Dems have better propoganda this go around...(ie Party of "No"?) and just as many extremists on the left. If a Romney can give Obama that close of a race, imagine what a real star would have done (just don't see a real star on either side these days).

Thomas Brown

0 posts

11/7/2012 11:11 AM

Trevor Monreal said: Excuse me...but I would think that running on the idea of a smaller, less intrusive government while pledging to work with the other side to control the debt and government deficits was very broad??
And, who was it exactly that told Eric Cantor (Jan, 2009) and the rest of the republicans during a bipartisan meeting to come up with a solution for the country's economic mess,"Elections have consequences and Eric, "I won".
Does that sound inclusive?
I'm afraid it is just the opposite.
Romney campaigned on big ideas and solutions to the country's problems.
President Obama campaigned (extremely effectively) on minute issues and won.
The war on women, big bird, abortion...
It is no longer, "The economy, stupid".
I hate to say it but I don't think Reagan's big tent would not have attracted any more voters this election.
The country has changed. It's no longer "What you can do for your country" but rather, what can the government do for me.

You nailed it Trevor! "The country has changed."

Steve Nelson

0 posts

11/7/2012 11:11 AM

Keith, you're right, we didn't have a star- that would've helped. But really, it wasn't close and when you consider how bad the economy has been... well if we couldn't win this time around then we are doing something wrong.

Some numbers to consider:
Obama got
93% of the black vote
73% of the asian vote
71% of the hispanic vote
60% of the under 30 vote
55% of the female vote
Didn't see a figure but what gay person would vote republican?

We got the white guy vote and the rich guy vote. That ain't going to get it done. As somebody else said, the country has changed.

James Schmid

1 posts

11/7/2012 11:11 AM

Steve Nelson, CGCS said: Keith, you're right, we didn't have a star- that would've helped. But really, it wasn't close and when you consider how bad the economy has been... well if we couldn't win this time around then we are doing something wrong.

Some numbers to consider:
Obama got
93% of the black vote
73% of the asian vote
71% of the hispanic vote
60% of the under 30 vote
55% of the female vote
Didn't see a figure but what gay person would vote republican?

We got the white guy vote and the rich guy vote. That ain't going to get it done. As somebody else said, the country has changed.

I'm a white guy, and I didn't vote republican

Clay Putnam

33 posts

11/7/2012 12:11 PM

Steve Nelson, CGCS said: Keith, you're right, we didn't have a star- that would've helped. But really, it wasn't close and when you consider how bad the economy has been... well if we couldn't win this time around then we are doing something wrong.

Some numbers to consider:
Obama got
93% of the black vote
73% of the asian vote
71% of the hispanic vote
60% of the under 30 vote
55% of the female vote
45% white vote
Didn't see a figure but what gay person would vote republican?

We got the white guy vote and the rich guy vote. That ain't going to get it done. As somebody else said, the country has changed.

As you can see almost half the white vote went to the president. The republicans need to consistently become the economically conservative/socially moderate party.

Steven Kurta

2 posts

11/7/2012 1:11 PM

[quote">The republicans need to consistently become the economically conservative/socially moderate party.

socially moderate = getting the evangelicals to settle down. they would make such a better party if they checked the morality B.S. at the door. For a party that expounds on freedom and individual rights and privacy, etc. They sure seem to be interested in what we do in our own homes and with our own doctors.

The religious wing of the GOP has got to get a hold of itself and mellow out. They're hamstringing the rest of the party. It drives a lot of potential voters (WOMEN) away. Looking at it from the outside, it seems like a no-brainer.

Steven Kurta

2 posts

11/7/2012 1:11 PM

Also,

RE: Christie

He made a decision that, if you noticed, spoke to everyone who holds it together in this country whether it's raising a family as a single parent, plumber, small business owner, golf course supt. Governer...whatever. Namely -- he did his job in the face of having someone try to tell him how he should do his job. That speaks to everyone who is saddled with the responsibility of showing up to their 'thing' that they're responsible for. GOP wanted him to have Romney down there, he said "no. Not needed. Got work to do...Pres was helpful, I got this. Thanks" And then he was summarily thrown under the bus for it. That he was chided for it by the GOP - for doing his frikkin' job - was outrageous and I believe played badly with almost everyone i know who works for a living. guy was trying to the best thing for the people he works for and ended up having to take a load of crap from campaign advisors on what he 'should' be doing. If he drops 200 pounds by 2016, look out.

Stephen Okula

3 posts

11/7/2012 2:11 PM

Absolutely right Steve.

I was very impressed with Christie and his rational approach to putting his constituency ahead of politics.

I would vote for this guy, and just hope he didn't have a heart attack before he got out of office.

Melvin Waldron

43 posts

11/7/2012 3:11 PM

Stephen Okula, CGCS said: Absolutely right Steve.

I was very impressed with Christie and his rational approach to putting his constituency ahead of politics.

I would vote for this guy, and just hope he didn't have a heart attack before he got out of office.

It would help if he picked a competent VP candidate.

Mel

Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

Steven Kurta

2 posts

11/7/2012 3:11 PM

Christie and Rubio in 2016 would be a lock.
Ryan is too much of a freakshow with the abortion nonsense. Too many people don't see it his way whatever your personal views are.

Christie is a walking heart attack though.

James Schmid

1 posts

11/7/2012 3:11 PM

Steven Kurta said: Christie and Rubio in 2016 would be a lock.
Ryan is too much of a freakshow with the abortion nonsense. Too many people don't see it his way whatever your personal views are.

Christie is a walking heart attack though.

So what ? Dick Cheney has had 5 heart attacks, and a transplant, and he is just fine. I'm sure Christie could have at least 2 or 3 before he got into real trouble

Steven Kurta

2 posts

11/7/2012 4:11 PM

you're right, James.
But his opponents will name him 'Mr. Creosote'
[youtube">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aczPDGC3f8U[/youtube">

Niemier Rick A

11/7/2012 5:11 PM

Steven Kurta said: Also,

RE: Christie

He made a decision that, if you noticed, spoke to everyone who holds it together in this country whether it's raising a family as a single parent, plumber, small business owner, golf course supt. Governer...whatever. Namely -- he did his job in the face of having someone try to tell him how he should do his job. That speaks to everyone who is saddled with the responsibility of showing up to their 'thing' that they're responsible for. GOP wanted him to have Romney down there, he said "no. Not needed. Got work to do...Pres was helpful, I got this. Thanks" And then he was summarily thrown under the bus for it. That he was chided for it by the GOP - for doing his frikkin' job - was outrageous and I believe played badly with almost everyone i know who works for a living. guy was trying to the best thing for the people he works for and ended up having to take a load of crap from campaign advisors on what he 'should' be doing. If he drops 200 pounds by 2016, look out.

The GOP would have rather seen Obama and Fema fail big time in their response to Sandy. They wouldn't have cared that many people would have suffered more, just that Obama would look bad. That is the problem in this country. Both parties are guilty of it. Better to make your opponent look bad than to worry about the people you represent.

Wahlin Scott B

11/7/2012 5:11 PM

Rick Niemier said: The GOP would have rather seen Obama and Fema fail big time in their response to Sandy. They wouldn't have cared that many people would have suffered more, just that Obama would look bad. That is the problem in this country. Both parties are guilty of it. Better to make your opponent look bad than to worry about the people you represent.

Just out of curiosity, do you have an example of the left hoping for more suffering?

Clay Putnam

33 posts

11/7/2012 5:11 PM

Scott Wahlin, CGCS said:
Rick Niemier said: The GOP would have rather seen Obama and Fema fail big time in their response to Sandy. They wouldn't have cared that many people would have suffered more, just that Obama would look bad. That is the problem in this country. Both parties are guilty of it. Better to make your opponent look bad than to worry about the people you represent.

Just out of curiosity, do you have an example of the left hoping for more suffering?

I was wondering the same. Come on Rick. Lets hear how the left wants the country to suffer.

Clay Putnam

33 posts

11/7/2012 5:11 PM

Steven Kurta said: Also,

RE: Christie

He made a decision that, if you noticed, spoke to everyone who holds it together in this country whether it's raising a family as a single parent, plumber, small business owner, golf course supt. Governer...whatever. Namely -- he did his job in the face of having someone try to tell him how he should do his job. That speaks to everyone who is saddled with the responsibility of showing up to their 'thing' that they're responsible for. GOP wanted him to have Romney down there, he said "no. Not needed. Got work to do...Pres was helpful, I got this. Thanks" And then he was summarily thrown under the bus for it. That he was chided for it by the GOP - for doing his frikkin' job - was outrageous and I believe played badly with almost everyone i know who works for a living. guy was trying to the best thing for the people he works for and ended up having to take a load of crap from campaign advisors on what he 'should' be doing. If he drops 200 pounds by 2016, look out.

I do my best to stay away from the pundit propaganda so I didn't catch anyone tossing Christie under the bus. Let me guess, Rush and the other one?

Clay Putnam

33 posts

11/7/2012 5:11 PM

Steven Kurta said: you're right, James.
But his opponents will name him 'Mr. Creosote'
[youtube">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aczPDGC3f8U[/youtube">

Funny.

Niemier Rick A

11/7/2012 6:11 PM

Clay Putnam, CGCS said:
Scott Wahlin, CGCS said:
Rick Niemier said: The GOP would have rather seen Obama and Fema fail big time in their response to Sandy. They wouldn't have cared that many people would have suffered more, just that Obama would look bad. That is the problem in this country. Both parties are guilty of it. Better to make your opponent look bad than to worry about the people you represent.

Just out of curiosity, do you have an example of the left hoping for more suffering?

I was wondering the same. Come on Rick. Lets hear how the left wants the country to suffer.

First of all, I said "They (GOP) wouldn't have cared that many people would have suffered more". I never said they WANTED people to suffer, they just wanted Obama to look bad no matter the consequences of their actions. Team Romney wanted to tour the hardest hit areas in NJ, and Christie said no. Rush LImbaugh accused Christie of helping Obama look "presidential", Matt Lewis of the conservative website Daily Caller said Christie shouldn't cast politics aside so fast: "While nobody should discount the seriousness of the storm — or Christie's responsibility to his constituents — electing the leader of the Free World has serious consequences, too. Is Christie really saying that the plight of his state today outweighs the seriousness of electing a president of the United States of America for four years?" Do you think Romney and his staff were happy that one of Obama's biggest and most vocal critic was praising Obama just before the election? Rudy Giuliani took his best shots at Obama during Sandy, playing politics and saying Fema and Obama have done a terrible job.

Ronald Kirkman

42 posts

11/7/2012 6:11 PM

Greetings;

Not much has changed since the election. Let's hope the R and D can get together and do something. This is not my purpose of writing this post. It is all the talk about FEMA. I admit, I know very little about FEMA.

Through the years I met an Italian gentleman at the casino. He liked to play golf and when I informed him about being a Golf Course Superintendent we became good friends at the casino. This man was from Rhode Island. You notice I said an Italian Gentleman and that he was. However, his profession was a lot different than ours. He was really up there in his profession - example - you remember The Godfather? Well, now you get the point.

He said he won't be at the casino next week because of the arrival of Katrina. He will be going to New Orleans with his equipment. He had huge equipment which he said would be taken down by train and he had some men to operate it and there would be No Charge.

He never received a call from Fema and he was sadly disappointed because he could have helped out a lot. That's all I know about Fema. Someone with the right equipment at no charge remains a mystery.

Capt. Kirk
Retired Alien
Needham Golf Club
Needham, MA

Wahlin Scott B

11/7/2012 6:11 PM

This thread just went off the rails.

Clay Putnam

33 posts

11/7/2012 8:11 PM

Rick Niemier said:
Clay Putnam, CGCS said:
Scott Wahlin, CGCS said:
Rick Niemier said: The GOP would have rather seen Obama and Fema fail big time in their response to Sandy. They wouldn't have cared that many people would have suffered more, just that Obama would look bad. That is the problem in this country. Both parties are guilty of it. Better to make your opponent look bad than to worry about the people you represent.

Just out of curiosity, do you have an example of the left hoping for more suffering?

I was wondering the same. Come on Rick. Lets hear how the left wants the country to suffer.

First of all, I said "They (GOP) wouldn't have cared that many people would have suffered more". I never said they WANTED people to suffer, they just wanted Obama to look bad no matter the consequences of their actions. Team Romney wanted to tour the hardest hit areas in NJ, and Christie said no. Rush LImbaugh accused Christie of helping Obama look "presidential", Matt Lewis of the conservative website Daily Caller said Christie shouldn't cast politics aside so fast: "While nobody should discount the seriousness of the storm — or Christie's responsibility to his constituents — electing the leader of the Free World has serious consequences, too. Is Christie really saying that the plight of his state today outweighs the seriousness of electing a president of the United States of America for four years?" Do you think Romney and his staff were happy that one of Obama's biggest and most vocal critic was praising Obama just before the election? Rudy Giuliani took his best shots at Obama during Sandy, playing politics and saying Fema and Obama have done a terrible job.

I'll help with a left example.

Re: Chris Matthews

From Yahoo News: "On Tuesday while assessing Obama's victory, Matthews said he was "glad" Sandy happened because it showed undecided voters the president could come together with Republican leaders, including New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, to help the superstorm's victims."

Just goes to show that there are as many left nuts as right nuts. You know what that leaves.

Stephen Okula

3 posts

11/7/2012 10:11 PM

Ronald Kirkman said: Greetings;

Not much has changed since the election. Let's hope the R and D can get together and do something. This is not my purpose of writing this post. It is all the talk about FEMA. I admit, I know very little about FEMA.

Through the years I met an Italian gentleman at the casino. He liked to play golf and when I informed him about being a Golf Course Superintendent we became good friends at the casino. This man was from Rhode Island. You notice I said an Italian Gentleman and that he was. However, his profession was a lot different than ours. He was really up there in his profession - example - you remember The Godfather? Well, now you get the point.

He said he won't be at the casino next week because of the arrival of Katrina. He will be going to New Orleans with his equipment. He had huge equipment which he said would be taken down by train and he had some men to operate it and there would be No Charge.

He never received a call from Fema and he was sadly disappointed because he could have helped out a lot. That's all I know about Fema. Someone with the right equipment at no charge remains a mystery.

Capt. Kirk
Retired Alien
Needham Golf Club
Needham, MA

He should make them an offer they can't refuse.

Ashton Alan W

11/8/2012 7:11 AM

Steven Kurta said: [quote">The republicans need to consistently become the economically conservative/socially moderate party.

socially moderate = getting the evangelicals to settle down. they would make such a better party if they checked the morality B.S. at the door. For a party that expounds on freedom and individual rights and privacy, etc. They sure seem to be interested in what we do in our own homes and with our own doctors.

The religious wing of the GOP has got to get a hold of itself and mellow out. They're hamstringing the rest of the party. It drives a lot of potential voters (WOMEN) away. Looking at it from the outside, it seems like a no-brainer.

Bingo!

As an independent, I'm not going to elect anyone who strays to far from the middle... the game has changed.

Melvin Waldron

43 posts

11/8/2012 8:11 AM

Alan, good take, the funny thing is if someone looks at the presidents accomplishments objectively many policies are somewhere near the middle, I know some lean a little left and a couple might be bending in a 30 mph wind, but if anyone listens to the screaming mob from the right, I just have to laugh sometimes.

Mel

Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

Sean Hoolehan

0 posts

11/8/2012 9:11 AM

I find both parties to be intolerant of divergent views. If you do not respect someone how do you ever think you could effectively change their mind. The 2 parties in America are missing this and until respect for people who you disagree with is restored little progress will happen.

This forum is full of partisans on both sides, but in most cases it is a respectful debate (maybe a little colorful), mindful that we share a distinct commonality as Superintendents or those who support Superintendents. Let's hope that both our Political parties can be mindful of their commonality as Americans and work together through their differences toward what we share as our heritage and our future.

Sean

Steven Kurta

2 posts

11/8/2012 9:11 AM

Well said..for an Irishman
:lol:

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