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Fiscal Cliff

18 posts
  1. Ronald Kirkman
    Ronald Kirkman avatar
    42 posts
    12/12/2012 10:12 PM
    Greetings;

    No comment on this and I am sure all of us have our opinion. On the news it was stated that the Dems and I guess Repubs had 18 months to hammer this out and we know that did not happen. Some want to see it completed by the new year and others could care less.

    Nancy Pelosi said The House and Senate would like to be with their families for the holidays so it may not get done in time. Some reporter said (not to Pelosi) our troops would also like to be home for the holidays with their families. Stay in Washington until you finish whether it be before or after the holidays. Enough Said.

    Capt. Kirk
    Retired Alien
    Needham Golf Club
    Needham, MA



  2. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    12/13/2012 9:12 AM
    Two facts that show Obama isn't concerned about cutting the deficit and debt that should be pretty evident. First on the list, the federal government under Obama's term has hired an average of over 100 new federal employees every day since he took office. Second, 75% of the new revenue Obama is shooting for is to go to new programs. Sorry folks, the debt and deficit won't be reduced that way! He also put the giant list of new regulations on hold during his long campaign. Watch what happens now. More money will be removed from the economy, less jobs will be created and he will be trying to find a way to get a third term to fix the problem. He just needs more time for it all to work. Maybe when these upcoming taxes and the cost of regulation start hitting those of you who haven't been as fortunate financially, you will finally see the light. When many of us sound off to not raise taxes on the so-called wealthy, we are also thinking of protecting you. When they go up for those making a little more, it is just a matter of time before the government determines that you need to pay more as well. Don't think for a minute that you are immune!



  3. Keith Lamb
    Keith Lamb avatar
    3 posts
    12/13/2012 10:12 AM
    To the winner goes the spoils. What would the story be if the GOP had won. Time to suck it up boys, the people have spoken. A poll by the Pew Research Center found that 53 percent of Americans will blame Republicans for sending the nation off the cliff and only 27 percent will blame Obama. A Fox poll showed that 69 percent of the respondents favor tax increases on people earning over $250,000.



  4. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    12/13/2012 10:12 AM
    Keith Lamb said: To the winner goes the spoils. What would the story be if the GOP had won.


    We already know what would happen. We have already gone over the fiscal cliff. It occurred in late 2007.



  5. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    12/13/2012 12:12 PM
    I don't care what any poll says. Are you simply ignoring the economics because Obama won? Because people are jealous of others due to hearing 4 yeas of class envy politics, does that make it right or mean it will work? You can't say what the others would have done since they didn't win. Is the path we are on today one that will help our country? You guys know as well as I do, the answer is no and the country will be damaged for years to come from deficits and debt. Is fairness bringing everyone down to a lower level? It appears to be the case.



  6. Jon Gansen
    Jon Gansen avatar
    1 posts
    12/13/2012 1:12 PM
    Keith Lamb said: To the winner goes the spoils. What would the story be if the GOP had won. Time to suck it up boys, the people have spoken. A poll by the Pew Research Center found that 53 percent of Americans will blame Republicans for sending the nation off the cliff and only 27 percent will blame Obama. A Fox poll showed that 69 percent of the respondents favor tax increases on people earning over $250,000.


    I agree but what about spending, the deficit? Does it mean that we will dig a deeper hole? What will this administration do to cut the deficit? We know from our personal and work budgets that you actually make and follow a budget.. As for the cliff Obamas in a win situation either way, its about ideology and politics on both sides and not the nations well being.



  7. Spotts David A
    Spotts David A avatar
    12/13/2012 2:12 PM
    I have sworn upon the altar
    of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." ...
    Thomas Jefferson

    wasn't he a slave owner? just sayin



  8. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
  9. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    12/13/2012 3:12 PM



  10. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    12/13/2012 3:12 PM
    I repeat, it isn't about the past election. It is about right now. Obama will not cut spending from the sound of Washington yet he wants to continue the spending increase. How does this work in the real economic world? He is our president so it is now his responsibility. I don't think he cares. In his case it is ideology before reality! At this rate, how is this going to play out? What will America look like for later generations. Their money has already been spent!



  11. Jon Gansen
    Jon Gansen avatar
    1 posts
    12/14/2012 4:12 AM
    Now that we have the Polls figured out... Whats it mean? Everything Sandy said is fact. Greece has proposed taxes on 55,000 at a 42% rate. Is that what we are shooting for? The longer we wait the more pain there will be. Prime example of goverment spending. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/12/sandy-aid-package-includes-millions-for-smithsonian-space-center-forests/



  12. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    12/14/2012 5:12 AM
    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: How about the Polls that had Romney handily beating Obama!

    http://www.people-press.org/2012/12/13/as-fiscal-cliff-nears-democrats-have-public-opinion-on-their-side/


    I didn't realize Romney was going to handily trounce Obama. I thought it was the other way around.



  13. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    12/14/2012 8:12 AM
    Jon Gansen said: Now that we have the Polls figured out... Whats it mean? Everything Sandy said is fact. Greece has proposed taxes on 55,000 at a 42% rate. Is that what we are shooting for? The longer we wait the more pain there will be. Prime example of goverment spending. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/12/sandy-aid-package-includes-millions-for-Smithsonian-space-center-forests/


    Jon, while there might be some items such as the Smithsonian roof that they want the some money to repair repairs predating Sandy, (my question is why wasn't the roof fixed before), and that money seems pretty step, certainly amounts we might find hard to comprehend, when there is talk about mitigation items to try to prevent that damage from occurring again.

    I see nothing wrong with setting aside that money, it's like for example, we found a leak in our pipe leading to our clubhouse lawn irrigation, which was in a sleeve under the front walk, when we fixed it, we added a quick coupler and an isolation valve that gives us more flexibility to make repairs with-out shutting off an entire golf hole, it was an improvement so the issue if it were to occur would not be so detrimental to us.

    After the Joplin Tornado, there was extra money spent to build shelters and to strengthen building to better withstand another tornado and hopefully save many lives, that to me is good government spending.

    I will grant you this, and we might not know quite how all that works, but if a time line was put together of repairs and improvements and then maybe the money asked for could be done in separate bills? Would that be more palatable?

    Also think about this those areas of the country that were affected typically send more money to Washington and see less of a return compared to other states, maybe for once they should get a return. Besides the quicker they get back on their feet the sooner everything get closer to normal, they can continue on like before the storm and start sending their tax money back to Washington again.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  14. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    12/14/2012 9:12 AM
    Mel, you answered my comment and maybe didn't realize it. The Smithsonian problem of deferred maintenance is exactly an example of government incompetence I keep referring to. The money went somewhere else, just like it always does. Obama can and will cause our taxes to go up and yes, it will eventually get all of you but the money will continue to go to things other than solving the problem. Look at your roads or city piping infrastructure. Does the gas tax fix and repair roads as the money was originally taxed to do? No, it goes to idiotic things like mass transit that nobody working out of the core of the city can ever use. I have seen greenbelts along the edge of roads built with gas tax money. How old are the pipes in your city? We have paid taxes on our water and sewage bills for years but the only time anything is repaired is when a major blowout occurs. The rest of the time the government entity is telling you how they need more money to do these jobs. Ok, where has all the other money that has been taxed to cover these things gone? No lock boxes exist. Once it goes into the general fund, it is gone. Just watch California over the next few years and you can see where the country is headed. We are already well into Obama's second term out here and it isn't pretty. No money, and nobody to bail us out!



  15. Jon Gansen
    Jon Gansen avatar
    1 posts
    12/14/2012 9:12 AM
    Melvin Waldron, CGCS said:
    Jon Gansen said: Now that we have the Polls figured out... Whats it mean? Everything Sandy said is fact. Greece has proposed taxes on 55,000 at a 42% rate. Is that what we are shooting for? The longer we wait the more pain there will be. Prime example of government spending. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/12/sandy-aid-package-includes-millions-for-Smithsonian-space-center-forests/


    Jon, while there might be some items such as the Smithsonian roof that they want the some money to repair repairs predating Sandy, (my question is why wasn't the roof fixed before), and that money seems pretty step, certainly amounts we might find hard to comprehend, when there is talk about mitigation items to try to prevent that damage from occurring again.

    I see nothing wrong with setting aside that money, it's like for example, we found a leak in our pipe leading to our clubhouse lawn irrigation, which was in a sleeve under the front walk, when we fixed it, we added a quick coupler and an isolation valve that gives us more flexibility to make repairs with-out shutting off an entire golf hole, it was an improvement so the issue if it were to occur would not be so detrimental to us.

    After the Joplin Tornado, there was extra money spent to build shelters and to strengthen building to better withstand another tornado and hopefully save many lives, that to me is good government spending.

    I will grant you this, and we might not know quite how all that works, but if a time line was put together of repairs and improvements and then maybe the money asked for could be done in separate bills? Would that be more palatable?

    Also think about this those areas of the country that were affected typically send more money to Washington and see less of a return compared to other states, maybe for once they should get a return. Besides the quicker they get back on their feet the sooner everything get closer to normal, they can continue on like before the storm and start sending their tax money back to Washington again.

    Mel


    The federal gov. would never sit back and wait for the price tag. Instead they ask for 80 billion and they settle on 60 billion. 5 billion is left in FEMA that should carry over till March. Why we are at it lets plant trees fix a roof and probably more when it is said and done. Mel you mentioned extra money???? Where is it? Last time I looked we were in debt over 16 trillion. When the Government prices something there is always that extra money left over...
    [quote">maybe for once they should get a return Here lies the problem, too many already take more than they give and thats if they give at all.



  16. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    1/2/2013 6:01 AM
    Saw the news this morning. Looks like the republicans came to the negotiations table and got their back sides handed to them. The dems are extending their new years eve partying with this deal. At least our POTUS can get back to his vacation.



  17. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    1/2/2013 7:01 AM
    Clay Putnam, CGCS said: Saw the news this morning. Looks like the republicans came to the negotiations table and got their back sides handed to them. The dems are extending their new years eve partying with this deal. At least our POTUS can get back to his vacation.


    Both parties knew of this problem long before the election, I think the republicans wanted to wait until after the election thinking Gov. Romney would get elected. Why since legislation is suppose to start in the house anyway, didn't they (both parties but since the republicans controlled it) get on top of the situation after the election and provide a plan and sell it? If I was them I would have done it to show some leadership. The president had a plan and promoted it, of course that was what he campaigned on as well. He compromised also on it, now we have to solve the debt problem and hopefully big business doesn't control those talks and drive the train. And for those that hated taxes going up, maybe the can provide a better option by addressing deduction and tax code simplification. If that gets done then maybe the rates can go back down?

    My question is where are we going to address spending? I also wonder all of this debt they talk about from that this plan created, how much of that is from still giving tax cuts for below the $450,000? Wouldn't that debt been there if no taxes were raised like many on the right wanted? Also does some of that come from the extended unemployment deal? If the economy keeps moving forward and as some of those people get employed, wouldn't that lower that debt number as well?

    I understand we need to continue to look at how we spend the money, but at some point if we look at it from a business standpoint and that is the big buzz word, "Government needs to be more like business" don't at some point doesn't a business need to raise revenue or prices on things? This to me is how I look at the tax rate to a degree. But like I mention above, if we want lower rates then lets look at deductions then everyone would be paying a fairer rate, in my opinion.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  18. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    1/2/2013 9:01 AM
    Mel, the republican led house put together several attempts to address this over the past 18 months. Harry Reid chose to ignore them all and never allow them to be brought up in the senate. Reid is the single biggest obstructionist in the history of the senate. Did you by chance see the actual dollar increases on the various income levels? They are astronomical! The economy won't grow with these obstacles thrown in front of so many small businesses. Unemployment is going to be back at 9%+ within the year.Obama and the dems own this upcoming disaster. The repubs were put in a lose lose position where voting your beliefs would have further hurt the country. The debt and deficit were completely ignored in this package. $40 in tax increases to $1 in cuts is a total sham. I don't care who is in office, the country cannot continue on this path without losing the America we all know. Party affiliation is useless when your country is broke beyond repair. The bad part is the can has just been kicked further down the road. We solved nothing and will be addressing sequestration and the debt in just over a month. This will all come up again. When will the congress and senate ignore their party affiliation and finally say that what we are doing is making the problem worse?



  19. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    1/2/2013 10:01 AM
    Sandy,

    The America I know used to pay a heck of a lot more percentages on their income taxes.

    I didn't see the actual dollar increases on the various income levels, but it is probably because the rates are on higher incomes. I know when they were talking at the $250,000 level it would raise the income tax about $2,000 per year depending on what deductions the person was taking.

    What is a small business? Do they really make $450,000 in profits? That is when they would have to pay more taxes at the higher rate wouldn't it? I think if anything it would hurt medium sized businesses and above, of course the larger they are the more deductions they will find. We might see some jobs lost, but I don't think it would be as dire as you claim, it would depend on if the business is making profits in my opinion, heck they might keep people on just to avoid moving their profits into the higher income bracket wouldn't they? I have always heard that good businesses don't really let tax rates decide whether to hire or fire people anyway, it is a matter if they need more people because they are making more money or not. If anything might hurt businesses would have been the payroll tax expiring, but both sides really didn't try to save that, and they probably shouldn't have since that goes to pay for our social security and medicare.

    I will agree Reid could have put those on the floor of the Senate, of course the Speaker could have put the income level starting at a million on the floor too last week and he didn't. Nobody has really been leading like they should have and both sides are to blame.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

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