Fast and Furious Gun Running Scandal Cancel The title field is required!

1. Sandy Clark

   

   0 posts
   
   8/30/2011 12:08 PM

   I see where the acting head of ATF just became the sacrificial lamb for the administration by stepping down. No operation like this is started by a mere underling. This will probably bring down Holder eventually and may get way to close to Obama!

   
   
   
   
2. Wahlin Scott B

   
   8/30/2011 2:08 PM

   How would a botched attempt by Federal Law Enforcement Officers bring down the President? Just because Issa and Grassley launch an investigation that does not mean there is anything to find. It is a story, but it is not what Republicans and Fox News want to be. What do you see this turning into Sandy? You seem quite excited!

   
   
   
   
3. Sandy Clark

   

   0 posts
   
   8/30/2011 3:08 PM

   No Scott, I think it is going to get very messy because strong indications show that Holder knew more than he as admitted. Something this big didn't come from law enforcement, it came from the top. Living in a border city, we are hearing far more about this than what is getting out in the rest of the country. Just give it time to develop and you will see what I mean. You don't arm drug cartels, have thousands of Mexican citizens killed, have Americans impacted including our brave guys on the border and not have some heads roll! Don't take this lightly and blame it on politics. This will probably cost at least Holder his job when it all comes out.

   
   
   
   
4. Wahlin Scott B

   
   8/30/2011 3:08 PM

   I watched an NRA video where it they stated that Obama was purposefully arming Mexican Drug Cartels. Do you think Holder was following orders and arming drug cartels in Mexico?

   
   
   
   
5. McCallum David K

   
   8/31/2011 6:08 AM

   One of the regulars in our weekend golf group is the head of the Baton Rouge regional ATF office. He told me when this first broke two months ago, that the ATF "NEVER lets a gun walk".........that's their terminology and policy. What happened in Arizona came from way above the local regional office of the ATF abilty to authorize. Who it came from I have no idea...........you make your own assumptions.......maybe someone should have called the White House like the DUI arrestee.

   
   
   
   
6. Sandy Clark

   

   0 posts
   
   8/31/2011 9:08 AM

   I don't know how far up the food chain this idea came from. It has implications into both the FBI and possibly even the CIA. Justice had to have played a roll in approving of this scandal. I hate when these things come up no matter the party in power. Scandals like this never do the country any good. If it goes all the way to Obama, then he needs to be impeached. I am not making that connection but will say that the approving authority, whoever that is needs to be fired at the least. We have dead agents and civilians on both sides of the border. The Zetas have been the major receivers of the weapons. Let the investigations lead where they may without any of us trying to make this political. This was insanely stupid no matter who came up with the idea.

   
   
   
   
7. Wahlin Scott B

   
   8/31/2011 11:08 AM

   sandy1 said: Let the investigations lead where they may without any of us trying to make this political. This was insanely stupid no matter who came up with the idea.

   
   
   Okay, so if this is not political you posted it in the wrong spot. I think that is just plain rude.

   
   
   
   
8. Trevor Monreal

   

   5 posts
   
   9/1/2011 7:09 AM

   I agree with Sandy that nothing good could have come from this "plan" so it makes you wonder what the idea behind it was. I don't think the idea was to purposely arm the drug cartels nor do I think (hope it wasn't) to be able to trace guns back to the US and push for stricter gun control because of it.
   I do think it was a sting to get the gun shop owners at the selling point (and then possibly push for stricter controls). Problem was gun shop owners did what they were suppose to do and the agency in charge did not plan for this. Next thing you know the guns get into Mexico and then, sadly, end of killing some Americans.
   Will Holder lose his job because of it...I doubt it. Unfortunately for Obama, he can't pull the trigger and get cabinet members to resign. Remember, "the system worked". That situation (comment) should have lead to a resignation before new years day.
   If Obama would do a little more of this, I believe, it would make him look like a stronger leader to ALL Americans and to the world...not that I care what the rest of the world thinks of our president.
   In the end, however, it's all George W. Bush's fault...and his politics suck (had to fit the forum).

   
   
   
   
9. Steve Nelson

   

   0 posts
   
   9/1/2011 9:09 AM

   Not a big fan of Obama, but honestly this is just a botched law enforcement operation. In this type of sting, weapons winding up in the wrong hands is sort of the whole idea, but they failed to make the arrests and retrieve the weapons. I guess this risk is just inherint to the operation. It's bad PR that maybe some of the weapons were used in crimes in the US and Mexico, but really if not these guns then it would have been another. Arguing that guns don't kill people, people kill people, goes both ways. The cartels are very creative and effective at killing people. They don't need to get guns from the US, it's just the most convenient place.
   
   If Iran- Contra couldn't bring down a President, this surely won't. Let's keep it in perspective, no matter how much some of us don't care for the current President.

   
   
   
   
10. Sandy Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    9/1/2011 9:09 AM

    Due to a couple of connections, I have heard a few things that have not been publicized. Have no idea if it is true but a CIA link to the President of Mexico may indicate the CIA was involved by providing one group of narco's weapons to help shut down another group of narco's to attempt to cut down the violence on the Mexico streets. There are too many things popping up with weird undertones to just be a botched law enforcement program. Way too much ducking and dodging is going on in Justice. Denials have turned out to be complete lies and attempts to block the investigation are going on regularly. If it was just a law enforcement screw up, none of this would be necessary. I am not calling this a democrat or republican thing. This is a huge deal that will prove detrimental to government. I think Holder may be held ultimately accountable but only time will tell. If any of the FBI or CIA things turn out to hold any truth, this will ripple through many layers of our government. I just hope everyone responsible is fired, no matter who they are. This stuff impacts all the border cities and is spilling over the border. No matter what Napolitano says about border safety being better, it is simply not true. Just talk to the brave men and women risking their lives trying to protect our borders. They all say it is a very dangerous situation. They will tell you personally not to go anywhere in Mexico.

    
    
    
    
11. Peter Bowman

    

    11 posts
    
    9/1/2011 10:09 AM

    Starting to sound like one of those stories where some high-level govt employee with lots of inside info will be found dead next to a creek in the woods pretty soon.

    
    
    
    
12. McCallum David K

    
    9/1/2011 10:09 AM

    Trevor..........uhhhhhhhh that's a no no.....you cannot say.........."unfortunately Obama can't pull the trigger" that is politically incorrect speak...........remember this occurred in Arizona.......no references to bulls-eyes, targets, pulling triggers etc etc............Sarah has been banned from the state

    
    
    
    
13. Trevor Monreal

    

    5 posts
    
    9/1/2011 11:09 AM

    Wow! David you are so right...I forgot.
    Is it still OK to get somebody to pull my finger?
    Maybe that's what they need to do in Washington, pull each others fingers a bit more and let out some hot air.

    
    
    
    
14. Mark Claburn

    

    6 posts
    
    9/7/2011 3:09 PM

    wahlins said: How would a botched attempt by Federal Law Enforcement Officers bring down the President? Just because Issa and Grassley launch an investigation that does not mean there is anything to find. It is a story, but it is not what Republicans and Fox News want to be. What do you see this turning into Sandy? You seem quite excited!

    
    
    no kidding the four ATF agents that testified before congress were probably lying to impress Fox News, they will probably be held in contempt of Congress, whats more I am sure that acting ATF head Ken Melson will sue and win based on wrongful termination. Really nothing to see herehttp://grassley.senate.gov/judiciary/upload/ATF-07-05-11-CEG-Issa-letter-to-Holder-Melson-interview.pdf
    
    I think that Fox has actually made the whole thing up :http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/07/05/mexican-lawmakers-want-to-extradite-american-officials-over-operation-fast-and-furious-scandal/
    
    Luckily our president didnt know about it:http://blog.mysanantonio.com/texas-on-the-potomac/2011/03/obama-says-he-didnt-inform-mexico-of-u-s-gun-smuggling-operation-because-he-didnt-know-about-it/ heck nobody knew anythinghttp://www.thenewamerican.com/world-mainmenu-26/north-america-mainmenu-36/8599-reports-cia-working-with-mexican-drug-cartels luckily our government wouldnt do anything nefarious http://www.darkgovernment.com/news/mexican-drug-cartel-leaders-trained-at-ft-bragg/ ever http://publicintelligence.net/usnato-troops-patrolling-opium-poppy-fields-in-afghanistan/
    
    or we could just appoint a special prosecutor and sort the whole thing out....naa
    
    and BTW Pete your post is probably the most accurate thing on here

    
    
    
    
15. Ronald Conard

    

    4 posts
    
    9/8/2011 6:09 AM

    claburnm said:

    wahlins said: How would a botched attempt by Federal Law Enforcement Officers bring down the President? Just because Issa and Grassley launch an investigation that does not mean there is anything to find. It is a story, but it is not what Republicans and Fox News want to be. What do you see this turning into Sandy? You seem quite excited!

    
    
    no kidding the four ATF agents that testified before congress were probably lying to impress Fox News, they will probably be held in contempt of Congress, whats more I am sure that acting ATF head Ken Melson will sue and win based on wrongful termination. Really nothing to see herehttp://grassley.senate.gov/judiciary/upload/ATF-07-05-11-CEG-Issa-letter-to-Holder-Melson-interview.pdf
    
    I think that Fox has actually made the whole thing up :http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/07/05/mexican-lawmakers-want-to-extradite-american-officials-over-operation-fast-and-furious-scandal/
    
    Luckily our president didnt know about it:http://blog.mysanantonio.com/texas-on-the-potomac/2011/03/obama-says-he-didnt-inform-mexico-of-u-s-gun-smuggling-operation-because-he-didnt-know-about-it/ heck nobody knew anythinghttp://www.thenewamerican.com/world-mainmenu-26/north-america-mainmenu-36/8599-reports-cia-working-with-mexican-drug-cartels luckily our government wouldnt do anything nefarious http://www.darkgovernment.com/news/mexican-drug-cartel-leaders-trained-at-ft-bragg/ ever http://publicintelligence.net/usnato-troops-patrolling-opium-poppy-fields-in-afghanistan/
    
    or we could just appoint a special prosecutor and sort the whole thing out....naa
    
    and BTW Pete your post is probably the most accurate thing on here

    
    
    Timmy?

    
    
    
    
16. Mark Claburn

    

    6 posts
    
    9/8/2011 7:09 AM

    lost on me Ron, I guess I need to visit the boards more often.

    
    
    
    
17. Keith Lamb

    

    3 posts
    
    9/8/2011 8:09 AM

    claburnm said: lost on me Ron, I guess I need to visit the boards more often.

    
    
    You would have had to been here a couple years ago.

    
    
    
    
18. Ronald Conard

    

    4 posts
    
    9/8/2011 9:09 AM

    claburnm said: lost on me Ron, I guess I need to visit the boards more often.

    
    
    
    Just trying to guess who you are?

    
    
    
    
19. McCallum David K

    
    9/8/2011 10:09 AM

    Hell after the big jobs speech tonight we will forget all about the ATF, the drug cartels, the gun running, agents dying...............all will be well with America again my fellow Americans. The seas will part, the moon will glow......uh sorry another speech at at another time..........got lost in pre-speech uphoria. And make note........the S word will not be used (Nancy says no more using the word stimulus). It is now politcal non speak!

    
    
    
    
20. Mark Claburn

    

    6 posts
    
    9/8/2011 4:09 PM

    hopefully some great ideas that everyone can get on board with-but I doubt it
    
    Mark Claburn
    Tierra Verde Golf Club
    Arlington, Texas

    
    
    
    
21. McCallum David K

    
    9/9/2011 6:09 AM

    $450 billion proposed and the "S" word was never mentioned. I give him an A+ on delivery and passion, a C on content and a D on facts. The very partisian AP did a fact check on his proposals and many do not hold up. Especially that is all paid for...............as Lee Corso likes to say "not so fast big fella".
    
    But hell I feel a lot better this mornng after hearing it.