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Ferguson, Missouri

18 posts
  1. Ronald Kirkman
    Ronald Kirkman avatar
    42 posts
    11/25/2014 3:11 PM
    Greetings;

    I think we all knew what would happen once the Grand Jury failed to indict. The Grand Jury did their job but the trouble makers did not like the outcome. Who brings a baseball bat to a peaceful demonstration. Muslims and the Black Panthers were in attendance at the rioting last night. Wonder Why?

    No one should be killed as Michael Brown was. But, did he bring this upon himself? He flagrantly stole cigars from the convenient store and pushed around the little fellow half his size. Proceeded to walk in the middle of the road defying anyone to stop him. After all, he was 6ft. 4in. and 300 pounds or 6ft. 6 in.and 285 lbs. and he had Marijuana in his system. He slugged The police officer a couple times in his face, one more punch and it may have been curtains for Officer Darren Wilson. Can you imagine a BEAR charging you and you only have one bullet left in your hand gun? I think Mr. Brown was a Big Bully and it cost him his life. By the way, Eric Holder did not want the police to show that video in the store. I don't think they played it to the grand jury either.

    There were demonstrations all over the U.S. and I think there will be more now that Obama has used his Executive Privilege to legalize five million people. This means less jobs for the African Americans.

    Wonder what ever happened to the Black cop that shot and killed the white boy around the same time as Mr. Brown was shot.

    How about America's sweetheart Bill Cosby? Now that S.O.B. should be put in jail. Wonder if the white girls will march on D.C. and demand his incarceration.

    Our good friend Al Sharpton has some serious problems with the IRS in the area of a million dollars. Maybe we can reminisce about Sharpton and Cosby sometime in the near future.

    Happy Thanksgiving!

    Capt Kirk
    Retired Alien
    Needham Golf Club
    Needham, MA



  2. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    11/25/2014 4:11 PM
    Back in August, they were bitching that the police had too much "military" equipment. Now they are bitching because the Governor failed to send out the National Guard.which way do you want it?

    Everybody is upset about the killing of what the press likes to continually refer as " and unarmed youth". Oh, if it were only that simple. That unarmed youth would no doubt have killed that cop if he had gotten ahold of the gun.

    Why do we only hear about how the "system" needs reform and we hear nothing, zero, nada, zip about why aren't these young people being raised properly?

    I honestly feel terrible for his parents, maybe they did their best, but why would you not teach a child, especially a black male child, to do what the policeman says and get out of the street?


    Steve



  3. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    11/25/2014 7:11 PM
    Ronald Kirkman said: Greetings;

    I think we all knew what would happen once the Grand Jury failed to indict. The Grand Jury did their job but the trouble makers did not like the outcome. They would have rioted/looted/burned stuff to the ground no matter the outcme.Who brings a baseball bat to a peaceful demonstration He was probably hoping to get Al Sharpton's autograph and then sell the bat on eBay. Muslims and the Black Panthers were in attendance at the rioting last night. Wonder Why?[i]Peace lovers.[/i]

    No one should be killed as Michael Brown was. But, did he bring this upon himself? Ummmmm. Let me think....[/i] He flagrantly stole cigars from the convenient store and pushed around the little fellow half his size. Proceeded to walk in the middle of the road defying anyone to stop him. After all, he was 6ft. 4in. and 300 pounds or 6ft. 6 in.and 285 lbs. and he had Marijuana in his system. He slugged The police officer a couple times in his face, one more punch and it may have been curtains for Officer Darren Wilson. Can you imagine a BEAR charging you and you only have one bullet left in your hand gun? I think Mr. Brown was a Big Bully and it cost him his life. By the way, Eric Holder did not want the police to show that video in the store. I don't think they played it to the grand jury either.

    There were demonstrations all over the U.S. and I think there will be more now that Obama has used his Executive Privilege to legalize five million people. This means less jobs for the African Americans. [i]As long as Obama is President they won't riot about that.


    Wonder what ever happened to the Black cop that shot and killed the white boy around the same time as Mr. Brown was shot.

    How about America's sweetheart Bill Cosby? Now that S.O.B. should be put in jail. Wonder if the white girls will march on D.C. and demand his incarceration.

    Our good friend Al Sharpton has some serious problems with the IRS in the area of a million dollars. Maybe the kid who sells the bat on eBay can donate the money to Sharpton. Maybe we can reminisce about Sharpton and Cosby sometime in the near future.

    Happy Thanksgiving!

    Capt Kirk
    Retired Alien
    Needham Golf Club
    Needham, MA



  4. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
  5. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    11/26/2014 7:11 AM
    http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/m ... 10180.html

    The petition, titled "Mike Brown Law. Requires all state, county, and local police to wear a camera"......

    I'd be in favor of the law, but only if they call it the Officer Darren Wilson Law.



  6. David Brandenburg
    David Brandenburg avatar
    3 posts
    11/26/2014 8:11 AM
    It is a sad state of affairs with no winners at all, only losers.

    The cameras sounds like a great idea, but that law will add thousands of dollars of cost and hundreds of hours of labor to small departments around the country who need to log and save all these hours of footage in duplicate and provide copies to attorneys looking for any way to get a client off.

    You can't image in the crap people come up with now to try to get out of tickets they rightly deserved.


    Peter Bowman, CGCS said: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/michael-brown-petition-police-cameras-110180.html

    The petition, titled "Mike Brown Law. Requires all state, county, and local police to wear a camera"......

    I'd be in favor of the law, but only if they call it the Officer Darren Wilson Law.



  7. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    11/26/2014 9:11 AM
    I am so disgusted with the false narrative that is being spread and of course the press allows it to be repeated without question. How many black so-called youth (thought 18 was an adult) have been murdered by white cops in the U.S. in the last year? Nobody asks they simply keep going along with the open season on black males. How many black youth or young man have been murdered daily by other black men? Bet the number is far higher. How many white youth or young men have been killed by black cops or even white cops? How many black youth have been killed by black cops? Might be nice to actually know all these things and see if any trend actually exists! The other key element that isn't spoken of is how many of these youth or young men have been involved in crime or some sort of physical altercation that contributed to their getting shot? If a cop tells you to halt, put up your hands or any other command, common sense says you do what you are told! Like the Captain asked, where is the upbringing. Right and wrong and common sense has no color! Why are we allowing these race hucksters to incite riots? They should be jailed. Maybe I am just a stupid old white guy but I just don't believe the nonsense. How about if some investigative reporter actually digs into this to see if a problem really exists or has the perception been allowed to spread by social activists with no basis in truth. Not saying everyone had a comfortable upbringing like most of us on the forum had but that doesn't mean that stupidity and violence is acceptable!



  8. Joe Wachter
    Joe Wachter avatar
    5 posts
    11/26/2014 11:11 AM
    The unrest of the last 3 months is about 3 miles from my facility and I live about 6 miles on the north side of it. Bad deal from the start with a young man losing his life by an officer. In the beginning the police lost the narrative. It was a broad daylight shooting with an unarmed teenager no matter what the circumstances. The minority community no matter what the evidence proves believe police are heavy handed and the system is unfair.

    He was shot with his hands up was the cry of a few witnesses which spread like wildfire and has has since been refuted by a number of witnesses but the narrative lives on, sans NYC, LA, around the world spread by social media. Evidence shows that he was moving toward the officer, at least 25-30' before his final resting place. Not compliant like most officers ask in an apprehension situation.

    The protesting I understand, I support their right to do so peacefully but I am a pro-police person which means we would be up a creek in the end without them. We have probably 50% average officers, 25% great and probably 25% guys who should be sheet--canned but we have that in all walks of life.

    The area where all this has taken place was the power base of St. Louis politics and power base for a long time. Anyone who was anyone in our city was from this area, political and business leaders. Demographics began to change as the outer suburb ring began to form and then began the onset of white flight. My wife went to HS in that area in the mid-60's no african americans in her school. By 1980, AA was the dominant race. Got out of college in 1980 and the area I live in now was still fairly dominant white with some AA living in the area. By late 80's and early 90's white flight began to move out to a newly burgeoning county further out away from the AA dominated areas. Large apartment complexes in the Ferguson and north county area had vacancies and began offering Section 8. I can't blame AA from the city want to move out to the county. Schools were terrible in the city and the murder crime rate in STL was climbing rapidly. Whites who were living in these complexes moved out as did homeowners. The demographics changed as then did the income levels of the area. Chain stores closed and less and less became available. More poverty built then more crime took over. With this increased crime rate came a high police presence and so on. In the end, the cities tax base dropped, housing was cheap and value of homes have not rebounded back as quickly as more affluent areas. Reductions in budgets, removal of community policing programs 5-6 years ago.

    Our governor has been inept at best. They said they planned for worst case scenarios. In my mind, worst case scenarios was rioting, looting and burning in downtown Ferguson and West Florissant Rd where he was shot. Lo and behold, that's what took place. The commander in charge of County police said after the burning occurred, we could never have imagined this kind of issues. What, did you actually say that. I thought it could even be worse. I did not think we would have 55 deaths like the Rodney King verdict but I feared we would have 5-10 opportunistic murders which did not pan out thankfully.

    Whats going to happen. I don't know. I guess things will slow, hopefully some changes will be made but to improve the minds of racists on both sides of this issue will be past our lifetime. Ending poverty within these neighborhoods, improving education, reducing our municipal fiefdoms from 90 or so to and more manageable level. The municipal court system in our area basically is a taxing body for these communities, adding more and more debt. I always say if you don't break the law, you won't get a ticket. No doubt there are some bad characters in the departments that do target and create issues for everyone.

    I do know the problems in our area and the demographics do hurt our club. People from lilly white areas do not want to be a member of a club in a more urban environment to say it politely. Our club has the opportunity to move like others out further into the county in the 50's but chose to stay. Smart move, well maybe not when it comes to memberships.

    Hopefully, violence stays low as does damage over the next few weeks. I think we will be living with protests for a while but it is getting cold which might change their tactics. Lets just hope in general that all of us treat one another a little better in the future.



  9. Steven Huffstutler
    Steven Huffstutler avatar
    11 posts
    11/26/2014 12:11 PM
    Stay safe, Joe.


    Steve



  10. Kenneth Rue
    Kenneth Rue avatar
    3 posts
    11/26/2014 2:11 PM
    Joe:

    Steve's comment (ditto)-stay safe.

    Prior to retirement-my second career, I was a branch manager @ a plumbing supply house. I would arrive daily @ 4:30a (early riser disease) and I always thought, what if some perp approached me to gain access to our facility and/or monitored my routine. So I asked a police officer one day, what if? If I'm packing, do I aim for the knees, etc? He replied quickly-shoot to kill. You don't want them getting up and coming at you again because you just don't know.

    In essence- it is my belief that since the last shot following the other five, to Michael Brown's head-was in the fact the last result for Officer Wilson and the officer was doing his best to deter from doing the inevitable, thus providing Michael Brown's chances to live but the maryjane was doing all of the talking.

    NO one wants to see or hear that we have lost a young person in the fashion that it happened @ Ferguson, but the laws of the land are to be obeyed-remove this crap about black/white/brown, etc.- the desired result is to raise our children to the best of our ability, to be respectful to others, to the law and how to conduct one's self accordingly. Period.

    Kenneth Rue
    K E N T U C K Y



  11. Joe Wachter
    Joe Wachter avatar
    5 posts
    11/26/2014 3:11 PM
    Sorry for the rambling diatribe above. Was trying to give everyone a little perspective and some history of STL.

    Well stated Ken and thanks Steve. I'm no hero. Was considering bringing my shotgun up from my youth days from my mom's house but chose not to bring it. I did not want to make the choice if it came that way. Our local police were staging the first couple of days at our facility and were actually showering and sleeping there in case something blew up and they needed reinforcements fast. It was kind of comforting when I pulled in Tuesday morning after what our city experienced the night before see there personal cars there as well as 1/2 dozen squad cars. We have a mile climb up the hill on Florissant Road to our club from Ferguson and no problems have moved up that hill. We are also separated by I-70 which kind of provides somewhat of a natural boundary. Interesting, I've had some members of my wife's family who have had significant experiences with the law and they sound a lot like what we've heard and seen on the news lately. I've told them the same thing, do the right thing, follow the law, pay the tickets you get and you have no issues. Continue to break and law and well, we all know what can happen.

    I did forget to mention that our friends at Norwood Hills Country Club can see the command center from their east course. They are a couple blocks from the worst action on West Florissant.



  12. Albert Kronwall
    Albert Kronwall avatar
    0 posts
    12/4/2014 2:12 PM
    "You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before." Rahm Emanuel

    During the final week of deliberations by the Grand Jury POTUS was taking heat from Republicans and some media outlets for his immigration Executive Order. When Governor Nixon declared a "state of emergency" and called out the National Guard in preparation of the Grand Jury decision AG Holder showed frustration with that decision. He felt it was sending the wrong message and would be counter-productive to the situation. Meanwhile, POTUS and AG Holder were pushing the white cop/black child angle prior to the Grand Jury decision announcement. Suddenly, Gov. Nixon decides to deploy guardsmen to some St. Louis communities but none are sent into the hot zone the night of the announcement keeping them out of camera sight. Why?
    With the table set for a race charged reaction the announcement was made and the powder keg went off. The city erupts into fires, looting and violence which creates a visual bonanza for media outlets to cover 24/7.

    Presto, the Executive Order is out of the news cycle, and while the media is busy covering Ferguson, 5 more terrorists were released from Guantanamo. 620 prisoners have been released, 107 returned to the battlefield and another 77 are suspected of doing so, according to the Office of the Director of National Intelligence.

    Coincidence?

    Andy Kronwall



  13. Joe Wachter
    Joe Wachter avatar
    5 posts
    12/5/2014 11:12 AM
    Our Governor has still not spoken to the mayors of the two cities hit by fires. One a democrat and one a republican. I just heard the Governor make another comment that he did not want another Kent State. All they had to do was park NG vehicles along a mile stretch of road for deterrence and we would have not had any of this destruction. There were already people out protecting other businesses.

    I think everything just fell together, conspiracy or not and ended up benefiting Obama's agenda. Especially since his AG came to our city 4 days after the incident and did not meet with one local official or law enforcement, basically throwing everyone under the bus and emboldened the protesters. Not that we had not made enough mistakes to do that ourselves.



  14. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    12/5/2014 3:12 PM
    What part of Obama's Plan is furthered by the shooting in Ferguson?



  15. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    12/6/2014 7:12 AM
    I'm assuming they must have cured Ebola...haven't heard anything about it in the news the past few weeks.



  16. Joe Wachter
    Joe Wachter avatar
    5 posts
    12/8/2014 9:12 AM
    Scott,

    The referencing was to the amnesty plan coming out at the time of GJ decision. I think it worked well for prez but don't think of it as conspiracy as others might. Not going to get into a political pissing match, I'm more concerned about direct actions of leaders who have not led and could have made direct decisions to change some of the outcomes of our community.



  17. Frank McQuiggan
    Frank McQuiggan avatar
    2 posts
    12/9/2014 6:12 AM
    First can't we all just get along? White cop/ Black Males, Black Cops/White Males who care about the color of the skin, I sure don't give a rats #$$ we all bleed red! I spent 20 years serving this great country of ours and have learned that the color of ones skin does not make the man, its what's inside that counts. I have run across as many white males who were trash and law breakers as well as blacks, Hispanics, and others. The race card should never be played unless Officer Wilson went out and said in public that he was going out to kill a him a black man today. I don't know if this happened and no one else does either only he knows this.
    Michael Brown was shown robbing a convenience store of some cigars a short time before ( not a law abiding citizen as many portrait him), at 6' 4" and somewhere around 260-280lbs he was a big man, if Officer Wilson was threatened by him and attacked than by all means force was warranted, the man feared for his life. His actions were placed before the grand jury and THEY found no evidence to try him in court. Its not about white/black race as the media portraits its about a cop doing his job. The Eric Gardner encounter In New York city same thing a cop doing his job, was he over zealous with the choke hold, I don't know I was not there and the people who claim he was were not there, He did what he thought necessary at that given point in time, split second decision on his part. Coroner said Eric Gardner died from a multiple of things, the choke hold only a contributing factor. Once again Grand Jury found not to indict him.
    Now we have all these protests going on in Ferguson and all over the country blaming the police with this hands up don't shoot, I can't breathe chants, professional athletes taking a stance which is in actuality a stance of Pro Criminal, ( both were shown to be just that criminals) making it out as a race issue. I say Bull Crap, be accountable for your actions be them right or wrong own up to your faults don't blame the police for doing their jobs. Oh Yea what do we do when we disagree with the police we burn the place down to the ground. Great though process here, no there are more people hurt because of it out of jobs out of businesses, makes real sence to me.
    Well that's my 2 cents plus some on the issue



  18. Corey Eastwood
    Corey Eastwood avatar
    82 posts
    12/9/2014 11:12 AM
    Well said Frank.

    Corey Eastwood CGCS, Stockton Golf & CC, Retired

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