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Lining up to leave California

51 posts
  1. Christopher Boldreghini
    Christopher Boldreghini avatar
    0 posts
    11/16/2012 8:11 PM
    You don't have to respect the man only respect the rank.

    Obama for four more years, they will go by fast, and I will not have to respect him as Commander in Chief.

    Charlie B.



  2. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    11/16/2012 8:11 PM
    Christopher Boldreghini said: You don't have to respect the man only respect the rank.

    Obama for four more years, they will go by fast, and I will not have to respect him as Commander in Chief.

    Charlie B.


    Good luck with that. He has four more years with nothing to lose; serious power and no worries of being re-elected. It is going to be a long four years for the right.



  3. Thomas Brown
    Thomas Brown avatar
    0 posts
    11/17/2012 7:11 AM
    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: Sandy and (a boy named) Kim,

    Life in America as you knew it is over. We misinterpreted the Bible passage about gay men obviously. A number of states legalized gay marriage AND marijuana, so "men who lay with men should be stoned" takes on a whole new meaning. It is time for Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and all of the haters to crash and burn. Your hatred of people different than you is not healthy for an open-door country like America. Whether you like them or not we get the best of every other country's people. We get the strongest, the smartest, the toughest, you name it. Haters need to step back now.


    Scott,

    I really don't know where to begin with your diatribe here and throughout this topic. I think Sandy was making a valid point of how business leaving California could effect the golf industry in California as well as possibly being a harbinger of things affecting our industry elsewhere.

    I don't interpret the Bible the same way as you do, as this relates to homosexual behavior and could produce older and new testament passages that support the Bible's instruction concerning it. That's not the issue. What bothers me the most is someone with an opposing point of view being degraded and possibly hated by you.

    I don't agree with "Red" on this forum when it comes to his atheist views, but we consider ourselves friends. He respects my opinion and I his.

    I pray for our President on a weekly basis and want the best for him, his family, and our nation. If I happen to hope he has the same Damascus road experience that the apostle Paul had ... oh well.

    Tom



  4. Wahlin Scott B
    Wahlin Scott B avatar
    11/17/2012 12:11 PM
    Thomas Brown, CGCS said:
    Scott,

    I really don't know where to begin with your diatribe here and throughout this topic. I think Sandy was making a valid point of how business leaving California could effect the golf industry in California as well as possibly being a harbinger of things affecting our industry elsewhere.

    My intention was to come across with sarcasm. The companies that Sandy named are mostly defense contractors. If the new President and the American People choose peace (Obama) over war (Romney, "The Russians are our enemy.") then missile makers are going to suffer. In my area anyway, there are plenty of jobs in construction and engineering as the economy is improving.

    I don't interpret the Bible the same way as you do, as this relates to homosexual behavior and could produce older and new testament passages that support the Bible's instruction concerning it. That's not the issue. What bothers me the most is someone with an opposing point of view being degraded and possibly hated by you.

    I must admit that I do hate haters. Homosexuality is not an issue to me except that I know and love people who I feel sure were never going to be heterosexual. Besides, presuming you are a Christian, didn't Jesus' sacrifice prove that God's grace alone was enough, that we are all sinners and deserving of this grace?

    I don't agree with "Red" on this forum when it comes to his atheist views, but we consider ourselves friends. He respects my opinion and I his.

    I pray for our President on a weekly basis and want the best for him, his family, and our nation. If I happen to hope he has the same Damascus road experience that the apostle Paul had ... oh well.

    May I presume from that statement that you do not believe that the President is a Christian?

    Tom



  5. Thomas Brown
    Thomas Brown avatar
    0 posts
    11/18/2012 6:11 AM
    Scott,

    I really don't want to hijack this post any further but will answer your question.

    Besides, presuming you are a Christian, didn't Jesus' sacrifice prove that God's grace alone was enough, that we are all sinners and deserving of this grace?

    Yes, I'm an evangelical Christian and agree with you that Jesus' death on the cross was for everyone including liars, thieves, adulterers, murderers, etc. Grace wipes the slate clean but Jesus also said, "Go and sin no more".

    In regard to President Obama's faith, I think he considers himself a Christian and I don't know his heart. I tend to struggle with Christian's supporting things like late term abortion.

    I have to watch what I post or I'll be deleted.

    Tom



  6. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    11/18/2012 12:11 PM
    Thomas Brown, CGCS said: Scott,

    I really don't want to hijack this post any further but will answer your question.

    Besides, presuming you are a Christian, didn't Jesus' sacrifice prove that God's grace alone was enough, that we are all sinners and deserving of this grace?

    Yes, I'm an evangelical Christian and agree with you that Jesus' death on the cross was for everyone including liars, thieves, adulterers, murderers, etc. Grace wipes the slate clean but Jesus also said, "Go and sin no more".

    In regard to President Obama's faith, I think he considers himself a Christian and I don't know his heart. I tend to struggle with Christian's supporting things like late term abortion.

    I have to watch what I post or I'll be deleted.

    Tom


    Tom do you have an issue with the death penalty also? You don't have to answer, but there are those that don't believe in abortion, yet support the death penalty.

    I guess also looking at your post in regards to the president's faith, I guess I must not be Christian either, not that I'm supporting late term abortions, I believe it's the person's choice.

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  7. Thomas Brown
    Thomas Brown avatar
    0 posts
    11/19/2012 5:11 AM
    I guess also looking at your post in regards to the president's faith, I guess I must not be Christian either, not that I'm supporting late term abortions, I believe it's the person's choice. Did you ever ask yourself what exactly the person is choosing to do? Forget about religion and consider when science says life begins.

    Mel



  8. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    11/19/2012 7:11 AM
    It's going to be a long four years for this nation, let along the right.



  9. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    11/19/2012 10:11 AM
    Scott, what difference does it make if they are defense contractors. It still results in thousands of jobs lost to California that will either go somewhere else or completely go away! That will hurt the recovery even more. Just because we are winding down in one arena, we can never cut back on having the equipment and tools to keep America safe. Do you really trust the Arab world considering which groups have most of the control, or Russia or China? Do you really think they are friends?

    Mel, Mel, Mel. Please don't use that argument comparing abortion and the death penalty. Those that receive the death penalty have earned that punishment by performing hideous acts against civilized people. Killing an unborn baby does not even come close because they are killed by so-called mothers that are using it as birth control in most cases. There is no excuse for that with the information that is available to women today about preventing pregnancy. The much smaller percent of abortions are the ones that impact the life of the mother or the result of rape. I would not judge those women in the same light as the abortion for birth control crowd. That is simply killing an unborn child because it will be an inconvenience! That does not compare to a murderer who has been judged by a jury of his peers to not be fit to live in society. The death penalty candidates have opportunities for appeal. The unborn child has no such opportunity. As I have said before, abortion is allowed under current law. Having two adopted cons, I am personally against it but the person making that choice has to live with that decision the rest of their lives. It is between their God and their conscience. I just don't think the tax payers money should go for abortion. Pay for the decision yourself and keep the rest of us out of it.



  10. James Schmid
    James Schmid avatar
    1 posts
    11/19/2012 10:11 AM
    Sandy Clark, CGCS said: I would not judge those women in the same light as the abortion for birth control crowd. That is simply killing an unborn child because it will be an inconvenience!


    How do you judge the men in either case? Do you think our society does enough to ensure the fathers in these "inconvenient" cases do what is needed to support the child? I think that anyone who has children knows that raising a child goes far beyond convenience. Why is the woman left to bear the burden of this "inconvenience"? Why do we not require the responsibility of the scumbag deadbeat dad?



  11. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    11/19/2012 3:11 PM
    Thomas Brown, CGCS said: I guess also looking at your post in regards to the president's faith, I guess I must not be Christian either, not that I'm supporting late term abortions, I believe it's the person's choice. Did you ever ask yourself what exactly the person is choosing to do? Forget about religion and consider when science says life begins.

    Mel


    Tom, I can consider that science and that might influence my choice, but I'm not going to force my opinion on others who have to make that choice. That is something they have to live with.

    Sandy you make a couple of good points, but if taking a life is wrong, such as abortion, then it should be wrong when sentencing someone to death, I always remember being told "Two wrongs don't make a right". But since they are both legal, I do leave abortions up to the person making the choice, (I don't think the government pays for abortions, maybe except for the life of the mother?). I leave the decision on the death penalty up to the state.

    Sorry to get off the track of the topic of companies leaving California. My question on the defense companies leaving, is it because of state taxes or is it because some spending is being cut? I did hear on a morning show today that all the high tech industries aren't leaving because of it, they are still working on research and innovation despite the taxes. (I probably didn't do the comment justice, heard it this morning on Morning Joe.)

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  12. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    11/19/2012 3:11 PM
    Mel,

    Not every company in the state is going to pick-up and leave. But the fact remains that some significant employers will leave. If the people of California are good with legislators that force some business out, then so be it. Thats the beauty of a democracy. The other beauty of democracy is that a company can pick-up-n-leave and head to a more "friendly" state. California's loss is another state's gain.



  13. Larry Allan
    Larry Allan avatar
    0 posts
    11/20/2012 7:11 AM
    Clay Putnam, CGCS said: Mel,

    Not every company in the state is going to pick-up and leave. But the fact remains that some significant employers will leave. If the people of California are good with legislators that force some business out, then so be it. Thats the beauty of a democracy. The other beauty of democracy is that a company can pick-up-n-leave and head to a more "friendly" state. California's loss is another state's gain.


    Interesting how democracy doesn't look as pretty when the company picks up and moves to another country



  14. James Gubricky
    James Gubricky avatar
    0 posts
    11/20/2012 7:11 AM
    [quote">Tom do you have an issue with the death penalty also? You don't have to answer, but there are those that don't believe in abortion, yet support the death penalty.

    I've never really understood how someone could be pro-life and support the death penalty, while others are pro-choice and against the death penalty.

    These positions seem to be at odds with themselves.

    It just seems more logical to be pro-life and against the death penalty or pro-choice and support the death penalty. Cheers.



  15. McCallum David K
    McCallum David K avatar
    11/20/2012 11:11 AM
    I am one of those stranger critters......pro life but support the death penalty but would happily give up the death penalty if abortion on demand stopped. Cost lot's more to execute one than it does to put them on the prison farm for 30 years.



  16. Thomas Brown
    Thomas Brown avatar
    0 posts
    11/21/2012 5:11 AM
    James Gubricky said: [quote">Tom do you have an issue with the death penalty also? You don't have to answer, but there are those that don't believe in abortion, yet support the death penalty.


    I've never really understood how someone could be pro-life and support the death penalty, while others are pro-choice and against the death penalty.

    These positions seem to be at odds with themselves.

    It just seems more logical to be pro-life and against the death penalty or pro-choice and support the death penalty. Cheers.

    Jim,

    I have trouble equating the taking of an innocent life with one that beyond any reasonable doubt murdered others, however, like David I would be willing to compromise and end the death penalty if the killing of the innocent would end.

    Tom



  17. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    11/21/2012 5:11 AM
    James Gubricky said: [quote">Tom do you have an issue with the death penalty also? You don't have to answer, but there are those that don't believe in abortion, yet support the death penalty.


    I've never really understood how someone could be pro-life and support the death penalty, while others are pro-choice and against the death penalty.

    These positions seem to be at odds with themselves.

    It just seems more logical to be pro-life and against the death penalty or pro-choice and support the death penalty. Cheers.

    Seems fairly simple to me. One is an innocent unborn baby. The other is a murderer.



  18. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    11/21/2012 9:11 AM
    Even though this has wandered off the leaving California original post, I have to fully agree with the last couple of posts. Society sets laws to hopefully create a good and safe living environment. When someone murders others, the law of the land with the support of the people, determines that taking their life is the ultimate punishment for for a horrendous act that harms society. They have fully earned the ultimate punishment by their acts and deeds. Aborting an innocent child (killing) for being a personal nuisance is taking the life of complete innocence. Again, rape, incest and the mothers health are a different story but the innocent unborn child is still the unwitting victim. Killing of innocence cannot be viewed as equal to someone murdering another member of society! No moral argument can ever make them the same. I fully agree that the man responsible for impregnating any woman must be financially responsible for supporting that child. It is equally important for both the male and female to consider the consequences the sex act. Women have an extra edge in preventing pregnancy from occurring and it is called birth control. A man has two options with one being don't do it and the other is wearing protection. Neither are consistently practiced. Responsibility unfortunately is not something we see enough of in today's world!



  19. James Gubricky
    James Gubricky avatar
    0 posts
    11/24/2012 9:11 AM
    Sandy Clark, CGCS said: Even though this has wandered off the leaving California original post, I have to fully agree with the last couple of posts. Society sets laws to hopefully create a good and safe living environment. When someone murders others, the law of the land with the support of the people, determines that taking their life is the ultimate punishment for for a horrendous act that harms society. They have fully earned the ultimate punishment by their acts and deeds. Aborting an innocent child (killing) for being a personal nuisance is taking the life of complete innocence. Again, rape, incest and the mothers health are a different story but the innocent unborn child is still the unwitting victim. Killing of innocence cannot be viewed as equal to someone murdering another member of society! No moral argument can ever make them the same. I fully agree that the man responsible for impregnating any woman must be financially responsible for supporting that child. It is equally important for both the male and female to consider the consequences the sex act. Women have an extra edge in preventing pregnancy from occurring and it is called birth control. A man has two options with one being don't do it and the other is wearing protection. Neither are consistently practiced. Responsibility unfortunately is not something we see enough of in today's world!


    Sandy, I agree with much of what you say.

    However, in support of the death penalty you cite the 'law of the land and support of the people'. The same is true for the right to abortion, it is the law of the land and has the support of a fair number of people. We may not agree with the death penalty or abortion rights, but they are the law of the land. This is some of the inconsistency that is found in people's views on these issues. Cheers.



  20. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    11/26/2012 9:11 AM
    I agree, both are part of our laws. My argument with abortion, based on it being legal, is simply it should not be paid for at government expense. If you end up in that situation, take full responsibility yourself. Don't expect others to pay for you. I may disagree with the law as many do with the death penalty. One cost is clearly covered by government and the other should be the individuals responsibility.



  21. James Smith
    James Smith avatar
    113 posts
    12/2/2012 6:12 AM
    Hey, I am thinking there are a lot of guys on this forum who should at least spend a few months in Somalia, or maybe Yemen, just to check it out. I really do think you would be happier there. It is for sure you are miserable here.

    Scott, I really do not know you and as far as I can tell I have never gotten into your political talks but after your remarks about Somalia I felt I had to say something. While you do have a right to your opinion and to voice that opinion due to the fact that lots of Americans have fought and died for your rights I think you are stepping over the line with the somalia remarks. I am guessing you already know that some of the ones on this forum are the same ones that fought for your right to say what you want, but here you are telling them that they should leave their country and spend some time in another. It almost sounds like, If you could pack them up and send them away to Somalia you would regardless of the fact that they have the same right to say what they think as you do and to an extent, those that did fight for our freedoms actually have more right then us who sat on our rear ends while they did the work for us. It really makes me mad when others tend to only think what they think matters and to heck with everyone else.

    What is really wrong in the California situation is that once these business leave you will never be able to replace them. Now we will have that many more unemployeed tax payers out there that will have to be supported by the rich. Once they start losing their homes due to lack of income then we will also have to take the loss on their homes as they fall into bankruptcy.

    Just how many free loaders will it take to break the camels back?

    I ask a member the other day, what will happen when our economy crashes?

    What will happen to these free loaders (and I am not talking about Social Security) when there is no money to hand out to them? No food stamps? no housing vouchers?

    The generation they are in which basically gave them almost everything without having to earn it does not know how to work. Instead of teaching the children how to earn a living the free loaders are teaching them how to have lots of babies so they can get more free money. What will they do when there is nothing to be handed out. Steal, beg, and complain about what they are not getting for free anymore.

    Sooner or later this well is going to dry up and our poor population will have to do without and that is where it will become a very bad place to live in.

    My only hope is that we can survive the next four years and that we have smarter people running next time.

    Then again maybe I am wrong on everything, except that you need to stop telling americans to go to somalia! heck if you like it so much I say you should make the move yourself, believe me we will not miss you for very long.



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