Obamacare fines start for hospitals Cancel The title field is required!

1. Wahlin Scott B

   
   10/10/2012 11:10 AM

   David McCallum said: And the hypocracy of it all.........a government that forces all citizens to provide proof of insurance yet the same government does not require everyone to prove they are a citizen.............and those that refuse or unable to prove they are citizens will recieve FREE insurance, paid for those of us that are citizens.......amazing how things work under Obama

   
   
   You are required to prove you are legal: Real ID Act of 2005. This is underway in Florida. I have complied.
   http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-109publ13/html/PLAW-109publ13.htm
   
   Unauthorized noncitizens are excluded by law from participating in the PPACA.
   http://www.nafsa.org/uploadedFiles/CRS%20analysis%20re%20noncitizens.pdf

   
   
   
   
2. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   10/10/2012 11:10 AM

   Sean Hoolehan, CGCS said:

   David McCallum said: And the hypocracy of it all.........a government that forces all citizens to provide proof of insurance yet the same government does not require everyone to prove they are a citizen.............and those that refuse or unable to prove they are citizens will recieve FREE insurance, paid for those of us that are citizens.......amazing how things work under Obama

   
   
   
   Now that's exactly what Romney should say!

   
   
   But does Romney believe it? He said to keep sending uninsured Americans to the emergency room also as their safety net.
   
   I get what you are saying about non citizens getting treated as well, but they have been getting treated for years, what is the answer? If they don't produce papers, turn them away? That's not very christian, or do they get treated and then deported? You can criticize the program but until you offer solutions, we won't get anywhere. I guess Scott has answered my questions about the illegals, never mind
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
3. Wahlin Scott B

   
   10/10/2012 11:10 AM

   Sean Hoolehan, CGCS said:

   Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: Efficient hospitals that rely on Medicaid and Medicare patients can make a profit on them with comparable results as less efficient hospitals with other significant sources of revenues. These other hospitals can work with these people by offering care below cost. It just depends on what your level of cost is. Having said that hospitals spend $49 billion annually providing care to the uninsured.

   
   
   
   Great Point Scott, if Hospitals are loosing $49 Billion on the uninsured. they are loosing $490 Billion on Medicare. They have to make up the difference somewhere, guess who pays the difference, the poor schlock with health insurance, because health insurance does not have the power behind them that government does, and most plans are only as good as their pool. The biggest cause of healthcare inflation is medicare cost shifting.
   
   Medicare is hardly efficient! Yes hospitals are mining ($$) the plan for money finding the procedures that medicare over pays and making sure almost every senior who comes in gets those tests and procedures. This is exactly why turning healthcare lock, stock, and barrel over to the government is a bad idea.

   
   
   If hospitals are saying they are losing money yet can find ways to make it back somewhere else by mining the system a board to oversee those hospitals is called for. I was unable to find a figure regarding actual hospital loses from Medicare. Maybe that is because hospitals can make money off of Medicare and Medicaid.

   
   
   
   
4. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   10/10/2012 11:10 AM

   I don't know how hospitals are losing money, we have three in our city, one I don't know how they operate, the other two control all the insurance in the town, we are either in one or the other. Our Mercy system just did a big addition adding new patient rooms and suites a couple of years ago, my wife got to stay in this nice room. The orthopedics group is moving just south of town building a new hospital and surgery center, don't know if all their out-patent surgeries will move down there, but the current out patient will still be doing things like gall bladders and stuff. They are also refurbishing their older section in the hospital to treat neonatal cases and added a Ronald McDonald house. The other hospital (Cox) that my mom would be at, (don't know if it was because she was on medicare at the time) just built a huge emergency department with 4 huge sections, able to hold at least 8 patents per pod (we are a city of 153,000). When we went with mom they would never have more then one open. Wish they would have spent some money on their rooms. I know some money comes from donations, but don't say they aren't making money, they still need to staff these new things as well.
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
5. James Smith

   

   113 posts
   
   10/12/2012 8:10 AM

   A lot of good points here guys but the penalty needs to be shifter to the insurance companies not the hospitals. Hospitals in themselves do not make the great profits some think they do. This is mostly due to the non payment from non-insured patients but also due because insurance companies do not pay the high prices that the hospitals charge. After my first back surgery I had sat down with the hospital accountant briefly and was showed that about 40% of the bill was not paid by the insurance company. The insurance basically sends in a check for what they think the operation should cost and makes the hospital fight for the rest. Ever got a bill for services at a hospital when you do not have insurance? the hospitals charge ludacris amounts for the smallest things. You would think the non insured person would be given a break since they most likely cannot afford the care and will not pay the bill.
   
   My wife works at a hospital and knows a lot about what goes on from her department. Most of the higher cost is because some doctors do not really care about what the care cost but rather about making a dollar. Since she works in the lab department she is constantly getting request for test that have nothing to do with the patients problem. some doctors simply want to run them all. There is serious lack of communication from the doctors to the nurses to the patient. Some of the test that are asked are so far out there you have to wonder what the doctor was thinking, and I know you may say well maybe they have something rare, but wait these doctors are known the run these same test on a lot of their patients.
   
   What it boils down to is that the insurance companies wants the patients out as soon as possible to cut their cost. When it is all said and done it is cheaper for them to get all of the patients out quickly and pay for only a few to get return visits, then it is to keep the patients in a bed for a few more days. Most hospitals have many open beds and know they do not make money with empty beds, so what is the hospitals motivation to get rid of patients quickly? Insurance companies paying the bill (or not paying the bill)!

   
   
   
   
6. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   10/12/2012 9:10 AM

   Thanks James for the insight, more people working on the inside of care providers should be involved with any laws that are proposed.
   
   I to am always surprised at what the bill states, what the discount is and then of course what insurance pays. We belong to a self funded system, which uses a third party administrator to take care of billing issues. It is not uncommon to get a bill for a doctor's visit that is $135, which of course has a discount that drops it to about $75 which then depending on if the deductible is met, we pay 20%. I remember the bill we got for my wife's last surgery, it was billed at $38,000+ had the discount which dropped it some where in the neighborhood of $10,000 which insurance paid. (luckily she had met her deductible and out of pocket max for the year thanks to her knee surgery earlier that year.)
   
   I would always wish that the charge would be the reasonable cost of the procedure with a little extra to allow for continued updating of facilities and pay and that is it, no need to work discounts and all the manipulating of charges, fees, services, bills etc. But of course we are paying for those with no insurance, and those that have high medical cost. It seemed like the Affordable Care Act is trying to address some of these things, and while not perfect seems to be moving us in the correct direction. Why can't both sides work together to achieve the goals that the APA is trying to get too? Or come up with something even better?

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
7. Richard Lavine

   

   3 posts
   
   10/12/2012 11:10 AM

   FWIW, I saw a piece on TV a few days ago about a somewhat inovative program at what I believe to be a local hospital. The hospital sends out a RN or PA for post hospital stay visits. The costs are WAY less to do this then having the person re-admitted. Older folks are somewhat notorious for not taking their meds or not being pro-active intheir own care, especially those living alone. I think some were looking at this to be a model for a more nationwide program.

   
   
   
   
8. McCallum David K

   
   10/15/2012 7:10 AM

   There has to be a happy medium or at least I hope there is somewhere in this health care debate. There will always be poor that cannot pay and someone must. I am not for leaving someone to die at home or in the street as some might think. I am certainly not smart enough to have all the answers but do not think the plan put togehter in the first two years of this administration is the right method either. It's a long term problem and will take awhile to solve it as well. Just giving everyone health care is probably not the answer either. As I have had (and still do) have employees that are provided insurance at company expense and choose to not accept coverage as they do not want to pay co-pays for doctor visits or pay for prescriptions......rather sit in an emergency room and get it all for free. Not sure what the answer is.

   
   
   
   
9. Wahlin Scott B

   
   10/15/2012 8:10 AM

   Obamacare is the same plan the right tried to implement in 1993 and the same plan that Romney implemented in Mass. There is no rational basis for objecting to Obamacare. If someone has one I would like to hear it.

   
   
   
   
10. Albert Kronwall

    

    0 posts
    
    10/15/2012 3:10 PM

    Obamacare is designed to run the insurance companies out of business and become a single payer system ending any competition. Once competition is out of the way the government is free to do whatever it wants, eliminate coverage, raise costs, determine what treatments are necessary, etc....
    Private companies have to keep premiums as low as possible to compete with other private companies. Once they are competing with the government they will be driven out of business. The government has the advantage of printing more money to keep going until the privates can no longer profit. If you doubt the government wouldn't print money to make it work guess again. They are now printing $40 million a month and Chairman Beranke says that there is no end date set.

    
    
    
    
11. Wahlin Scott B

    
    10/15/2012 4:10 PM

    Albert Kronwall said: Obamacare is designed to run the insurance companies out of business and become a single payer system ending any competition.

    
    
    
    No, no it's not.

    
    
    
    
12. Sean Hoolehan

    

    0 posts
    
    10/15/2012 4:10 PM

    David McCallum said: There has to be a happy medium or at least I hope there is somewhere in this health care debate. There will always be poor that cannot pay and someone must. I am not for leaving someone to die at home or in the street as some might think. I am certainly not smart enough to have all the answers but do not think the plan put togehter in the first two years of this administration is the right method either. It's a long term problem and will take awhile to solve it as well. Just giving everyone health care is probably not the answer either. As I have had (and still do) have employees that are provided insurance at company expense and choose to not accept coverage as they do not want to pay co-pays for doctor visits or pay for prescriptions......rather sit in an emergency room and get it all for free. Not sure what the answer is.

    
    
    David, Chances are if they have company provided insurance they are not going to get treated in a ER for free. Most plans make it more expensive to visit the ER.
    
    You are correct that the healthy well off people will always pay for the sick and poor's health care. They always have. The problem with fixing a system as broken as ours is that there is no way to keep everyone happy. The biggest problem I have with Obama-care is it does not fix problems as much as accelerate the speed we are heading for the cliff. It has always had fundamental flaws and I agree (as much as I hate to) with Chief Justice John Roberts it is a colossal TAX . Despite what the Vice President Biden says it is going to force Catholic institutions to do things they find morally objectionable. http://www.usccb.org/news/2012/12-163.cfm .
    
    There are ways to correct the problems with the healthcare in America, starting with bipartisan support for practical fixes (many of which are in Obamacare). Instead look how they vilified Senator Wieden for reaching across the aisle. Sorry I do not want 4 more years of this administration. Mitt Romney's biggest problem during the GOP nomination campaign was his history of reaching across the aisle and finding compromise. Seems like a good attribute right now. People need to get jobs first and foremost. A healthcare makeover is something that is going to take time and bipartisan agreement to forge a lasting remedy.

    
    
    
    
13. Wahlin Scott B

    
    10/15/2012 4:10 PM

    The math does not add up.
    [youtube">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Sff2WfJpuQ[/youtube">

    
    
    
    
14. James Smith

    

    113 posts
    
    10/18/2012 9:10 AM

    You know I have no problem helping pay for the poor's health care, but I want them to take a Drug Test to get the free health care. If I have to take a drug test to earn my money and pay my taxes they should have to take it to receive my help! I do not need to be paying for health care for any Drug Dealers, Dope addicts or just people that are too lazy to get a job. If you do not have a job and want the hand out, I think we can find some work picking up trash in the community or something else of that sort. If people had to actually do some little bit of work to get the small benefit's we give them maybe they will either drop out of the freebee program or just go find a better paying job!.
    
    I saw an email the other day and have since ask a few cashiers if this happens. Basically we are now giving out food credit cards in which a person can go and make a very small purchase (less then $1) and take out cash from the card. Now they can use the food cards as a debit card and buy anything they want even to the extent of getting cash and buying drugs! Who's stupid idea was this? what ever happen to food stamps only being used to purchase just food to feed a starving family?

    
    
    
    
15. Wahlin Scott B

    
    10/18/2012 11:10 AM

    James Smith said: You know I have no problem helping pay for the poor's health care, but I want them to take a Drug Test to get the free health care. If I have to take a drug test to earn my money and pay my taxes they should have to take it to receive my help! I do not need to be paying for health care for any Drug Dealers, Dope addicts or just people that are too lazy to get a job. If you do not have a job and want the hand out, I think we can find some work picking up trash in the community or something else of that sort. If people had to actually do some little bit of work to get the small benefit's we give them maybe they will either drop out of the freebee program or just go find a better paying job!.
    
    You cannot be on welfare for more than five years in your lifetime. It is a myth that able bodies people can stay on welfare for generations. There has been a work component to welfare since 1996.
    
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Responsibility_and_Work_Opportunity_Act
    
    I saw an email the other day and have since ask a few cashiers if this happens. Basically we are now giving out food credit cards in which a person can go and make a very small purchase (less then $1) and take out cash from the card. Now they can use the food cards as a debit card and buy anything they want even to the extent of getting cash and buying drugs! Who's stupid idea was this? what ever happen to food stamps only being used to purchase just food to feed a starving family?
    
    People who qualify for food assistance (SNAP) do receive a debit card to make their purchases. If you see anyone or know of anyone who is trading cash for SNAP cards you should report them. It is illegal.
    
    http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/fraud/fraud_2.htm

    
    
    
    
16. Stephen Okula

    

    3 posts
    
    10/21/2012 1:10 AM

    Ronald Kirkman said: Hey,
    
    Will guys stop talking about older people!!
    
    Physical Therapy tomorrow for my torn Miniscis in my knee - Dermatologist appointment tomorrow - Can't eat tomorrow and I have to drink the whatever tomorrow night for my colonoscopy Wednesday morning.
    
    LEAVE us old people alone !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Captain Kirk
    Retired Alien
    Needham Golf Club
    Needham, MA

    
    
    I've got two words for you Captain: Soylent Green.

    
    
    
    
17. Spotts David A

    
    10/21/2012 8:10 AM

    David McCallum said: a government that forces all citizens to provide proof of insurance yet the same government does not require everyone to prove they are a citizen

    
    
    Ahh, Ben Stein quote. Like him better on Ben Steins Money than on his politics. I believe he was one of the few pot smokers(at the time) who worked on the Nixon campaign.