Democratic convention Cancel The title field is required!

1. Wahlin Scott B

   
   9/8/2012 7:09 AM

   "I like that about the Republicans; the evidence does not faze them, they are not bothered at all by the facts." - President Bill Clinton

   
   
   
   
2. Steven Kurta

   

   2 posts
   
   9/8/2012 8:09 AM

   I think both sides (of supporters) truly believe the other side is completely missing the larger picture. I know this to be true. There's no sense in trying to explain ourselves to each other because we each think the other is so completely blinded as to be unable to understand what's 'really' going on here. I give up. There's no helping someone understand when they've chosen and dedicated themselves to not wanting to understand.
   
   This race is about undecideds anyway, not the people who frequent these forums.

   
   
   
   
3. Wahlin Scott B

   
   9/8/2012 9:09 AM

   Steven Kurta said: This race is about undecideds anyway, not the people who frequent these forums.

   
   
   A smoking hammerhead? I am pretty sure they are protected in South Florida. Just saying... (Down here when you are swimming in the ocean 10 miles offshore washing off the blood of 60 dolphin schoolies they call circling hammerheads "T-Boys".)

   
   
   
   
4. Albert Kronwall

   

   0 posts
   
   9/8/2012 12:09 PM

   I wasn't quoting Obama I was quoting Ryan. Mr. Ryan didn't make any promises to save the Janesville GM plant but Mr. Obama did imply that he would if he were elected.
   
   But really the point Mr. Ryan was making is that Obama made a lot of promises while campaigning in order to get elected. When he got into office the $800 billion stimulus went to his supporters like Solyndra, Evergreen Solar, SpectraWatt, plus many more, all of which took the money and then filed for bankruptcy. Then he took over a large portion of the auto industry, General Motors and Chrysler. Stock ownership was transferred from the firms' long-suffering shareholders to the government and unions, which of course are his supporters. He gave our "tax payers" money to his millionaire and billionaire friends that support the DNC instead of helping the middle class people he promised to help while campaigning. Mr. Ryan was just pointing out the hypocrisy and slight of hand tricks that were used by Obama to get elected.
   
   Promises made but not kept. Unemployment is still above 8% (real rate is at 14.9%) he said if the stimulus was passed it would not go over 8%. The National debt has increased by more then 5 trillion in his term to 16 trillion +, he promised to cut it in half. More than one third of the country is now on some form of government assistance, up 24% from Bush. I could go on with more facts, but I know it is pointless. As someone else on this forum pointed out this election will be determined by the independents.
   
   FYI – PolitiFactCheck Wisconsin is operated by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and is about as un-biased as the Huffington Post.

   
   
   
   
5. Ronald Conard

   

   4 posts
   
   9/8/2012 12:09 PM

   Yawn....I'm so glad I'm apolitical. Both sides have failed. Wake me when there is a viable third party.

   
   
   
   
6. James Schmid

   

   1 posts
   
   9/8/2012 12:09 PM

   Albert Kronwall said:

   Rick Niemier said: Let's see..."I don't think I guess I have some questions of Mr. Ryan and his favorite complaint, the automotive plant in Wisconsin that closed before Obama took office, that is Obama's fault. What, Mr. Ryan, did you do to save those jobs, the one your friends held? What legislation did you introduce to save that plant? Your so concerned about it now, but what did you do back then? And Mr. Romney...When was the last time you actually had to work a day and worry about whether you could pay your bills? And why won't you release your tax returns for more than two years, like your dad did? Do you have any off shore accounts that you keep your money hidden in?

   
   
   Rick,
   
   Paul Ryan just quoted what Obama told the GM workers while he was campaigning for president. I pulled the text from his speech.
   
   
   A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: "I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years." That's what he said in 2008.
   
   Well, as it turned out, that plant didn't last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And that's how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight.
   
   If you are going to bash someone please do your research before you embarass yourself. As for your comments about Romney, you obviously didn't do any research on that either. On your comments on transparency, I think Romney should agree to release the same number of years of tax returns that Obama released, if Obama agrees to have his records from Columbia and Harvard unsealed.

   
   
   
   Why do we the people allow candidates for president to have any secrets whatsoever? This birther stuff? tax returns? college records? You have to provide this stuff to apply for a job or a mortgage to prove that you are qualified. why doesn't the highest job in the land require the documentation. It's not ridiculous to ask for tax returns or birth certificates, or anything else for that matter.

   
   
   
   
7. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   9/8/2012 3:09 PM

   Andy K, so when does a politician not make a lot of promises when they are campaigning that don't get kept? Heck in 2010 all I heard was the winners (republicans) were going to Washington to create jobs.....both sides do it.
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
8. Niemier Rick A

   
   9/8/2012 4:09 PM

   Ronald Conard, CGCS said: Yawn....I'm so glad I'm apolitical. Both sides have failed. Wake me when there is a viable third party.

   
   
   
   I have to agree with you Ron. Both sides have failed us. Believe it or not I consider myself an independent. I have never voted for a person because of his political affiliation. I vote for the person I believe will do the best job. Neither party has given us a good choice in the last few elections. I do not believe Romney is a good choice. I think most Republicans would admit that. Obama has not delivered on all of his promises, but what candidate ever has? The Republicans certainly have to take some of the blame for the conditions, after all they are a part of all this squabbling.
   
   If you can't admit that both parties are to blame then you need to take off your red or blue blindfold. I believe term limits are a good idea, but it will never happen.

   
   
   
   
9. Steven Kurta

   

   2 posts
   
   9/8/2012 7:09 PM

   "promises" seriously? What is this, high school student council?
   
   You want to do stuff when you run for office, big picture, core belief stuff that makes a difference. The catch is there's a congress that needs to be dealt with. You can promise all you want, if it doesn't get out of congress, you're stuck looking like you can't get anything done. Who doesn't know this? It's how you make a president ineffective. It's politics. The simpletons that actually believe there's nothing more to it than "Obama breaks his promises" don't understand politics and should go back to watching honey boo boo.
   
   What people really mean when they say Obama doesn't keep his promises is that Obama doesn't compromise with or make deals with the republican congress
   
   Promises? nilla please. This is business.

   
   
   
   
10. McCallum David K

    
    9/9/2012 6:09 AM

    Term limits ( and I also agree it will never happen) and the outright ban of lobbyist. DC would be an entirely different city of those two things occurred.

    
    
    
    
11. Wahlin Scott B

    
    9/9/2012 7:09 AM

    David McCallum said: Term limits ( and I also agree it will never happen) and the outright ban of lobbyist. DC would be an entirely different city of those two things occurred.

    
    
    Lobbyists are a crucial part of the system. We the People elect the butcher, baker, candlestick maker and eye doctor to the congress, so there needs to be someone present who actually knows what is going on before they enact stupid laws.

    
    
    
    
12. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    9/9/2012 8:09 PM

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said:

    David McCallum said: Term limits ( and I also agree it will never happen) and the outright ban of lobbyist. DC would be an entirely different city of those two things occurred.

    
    
    Lobbyists are a crucial part of the system. We the People elect the butcher, baker, candlestick maker and eye doctor to the congress, so there needs to be someone present who actually knows what is going on before they enact stupid laws.

    
    
    Both of you make good points, with our congressional representative, all he knows is auctioning, maybe that's how he lines up and gets his good deals?
    
    Scott is correct, lobbyists can play a good part in educating the representative, but David is correct that I guess lobbying now is more about getting favors done or contributing to campaigns, not educating. I'm sure we're smart enough to fix the problem, help representatives understand things without basically buying their support. Maybe each side of an issue has a lobbyist to represent each point of view? They educate the representative but can't contribute to the candidates some how?
    
    I think term limits would be good as well, if it's good enough for the White House, one note of caution, we have them here in our state house, they can serve 8 years in each house. Sometimes due to term limits, a lost election here and there, or a retirement, we sometimes end up with so many newbies they don't know the ins and outs of how things get done efficiently. We are talking somewhat about looking at changing it to 16 years total as it is now, but they can all be served in either the house or senate, or both as it is now.
    
    We have to get away from the party politics and I think it can get done.
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
13. Sean Hoolehan

    

    0 posts
    
    9/10/2012 11:09 AM

    David McCallum said: Both came from middle class families, Michelle upper middle class giving then benefit of the doubt, Ivy League grads........

    
    
    When could anyone afford Ivy League on Middle Class Wages?

    
    
    
    
14. Peter Bowman

    

    11 posts
    
    9/10/2012 12:09 PM

    Sean Hoolehan, CGCS said:

    David McCallum said: Both came from middle class families, Michelle upper middle class giving then benefit of the doubt, Ivy League grads........

    
    
    When could anyone afford Ivy League on Middle Class Wages?

    
    
    Obama got in based on his grades.

    
    
    
    
15. Sandy Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    9/10/2012 4:09 PM

    Maybe along with term limits, it would be possible to restructure the politico's retirement and health care system. Why do we the taxpayer have to fund a lifetime of retirement and healthcare for people that are supposed to be citizen legislatures. I don't mind them getting something reasonable based on possibly 12 years of service (max they would be allowed to serve) but getting covered for life seems so unnecessary. We could end career politicians and limit our expenses. I think we can all put our politics aside and be in agreement for a change. Maybe we should all look for that rare politician in our State and try to get this going. I think we the people should be able to vote on something like this since they all work for us and not the other way around!

    
    
    
    
16. Jon Gansen

    

    1 posts
    
    9/10/2012 4:09 PM

    Sandy Clark, CGCS said: I think the most telling slogan out of the convention was that we all belong to the government! I kind of think someone got that backwards. That sounds more like the old soviet block countries but I know many get very upset at any hint of comparison to socialism. The government answers to us and they all better darn sure start getting the message. Turn every single one of them out of office no matter the party, if they don't understand that!

    
    
    
    I think Sandy made a good point here. Clint said they work for us. Democrat slogan is We all belong to government. Does this mean that if you are a Democrat you believe this and promote the idea? Isnt it the same reason the colonists fought for independence?

    
    
    
    
17. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    9/10/2012 5:09 PM

    Jon Gansen said:

    Sandy Clark, CGCS said: I think the most telling slogan out of the convention was that we all belong to the government! I kind of think someone got that backwards. That sounds more like the old soviet block countries but I know many get very upset at any hint of comparison to socialism. The government answers to us and they all better darn sure start getting the message. Turn every single one of them out of office no matter the party, if they don't understand that!

    
    
    
    I think Sandy made a good point here. Clint said they work for us. Democrat slogan is We all belong to government. Does this mean that if you are a Democrat you believe this and promote the idea? Isnt it the same reason the colonists fought for independence?

    
    
    Jon, I think it is in how you think about the words, the way I see it, (of course it's because I lean that way, I know what your all thinking) we are the government, we elect these yahoos to office, we are responsible for the government we have. I can see your point, maybe "belong" isn't the best word, but these politicians on both sides can say some silly things, just ask our Senatorial Candidate here in Missouri, (although I think he really believed what he said). Even look at us sometimes and what we say, and I am usually pretty careful myself re-reading a few times. I do take some exception to Mr. Eastwood's comment that they work for us, they are suppose to work for us, but chase the money trail and we see who they really work for.
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
18. Sandy Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    9/11/2012 9:09 AM

    The majority have forgotten they work for us. Too many feel they know what is best for us but we just don't understand the complexity of their wonderful work. The majority have become the ruling class and not our representatives!

    
    
    
    
19. McCallum David K

    
    9/11/2012 12:09 PM

    All good points by. I definitely agree with Sandy about a lifetime of benefits even if a guy or gal serves one term as a congressman. Their benefits are just amplified compared to most but even at the local and state levels its amazing what a politcian can come back home with after a very short time in office. Many run for local school boards just to obtain the health benefits as they all fall (in La.) under school benefits. No experience as a teacher or administrator but one term and a lifetime worth of benefits...........and some people wonder why unions get such a bad rap......another entitlement trap but white collar.