Phil Mickelson tax rant. Cancel The title field is required!

1. Melvin Waldron

   

   43 posts
   
   1/21/2013 11:01 AM

   Wasn't sure if this would have been a sports issue or political issue, but since it had to do with taxes.
   
   Wondering what everyone's thoughts are as Phil is complaining about paying 62% of his income in taxes. Saying he is looking into either retiring, moving out of California, or even out of the country. My first comment I thought of, he needs to hire better accountants.
   
   He is suppose to speak more about it before teeing it up this week in San Diego.
   
   While I do believe 62% is a lot, there is the 39% federal tax, from 15% up to 20% on investments, the 2.9% for social security payroll taxes (maybe the PGA tour shouldn't have independent contractors? guess something of debate) 13.something % for California taxes. And probably local taxes, (while reading some comments he does get to deduct 8% from his federal for paying state taxes). I guess my question is, what are the real tax rates someone like him will pay, what can he save by investing or creating foundations to help disadvantaged, just wonder how this debate might move forward. I know looking at it from the outside and not knowing what to do with all that money he makes, heck I'll switch places with him, but I can understand some frustration that he works very hard to earn that money.
   
   My suggestion is what is a fair way to fix it? Take away tax deductions people that make money like him away from them and then let them pay 20% or so, we all can do that? How does that help or hurt donations he might make, or foundations that people like him create to provide benefits to those less fortunate, of course I look at the people those foundations employ. I guess a lot to discuss? (hey it's been pretty quite in here lately)
   
   Mel

   
   Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
   
   
2. Wahlin Scott B

   
   1/21/2013 11:01 AM

   How many enemies have his kids' killed? How many bullets have come within a foot of his kids' heads? How many battle buddies have his kids' kept from bleeding out? Leave the country. Good riddance.

   
   
   
   
3. Peter Bowman

   

   11 posts
   
   1/21/2013 12:01 PM

   Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: How many enemies have his kids' killed?

   
   
   Hopefully zero. Aren't they about 5 years old? But if they have, then I've got new heroes.

   
   
   
   
4. Wahlin Scott B

   
   1/21/2013 12:01 PM

   Peter Bowman, CGCS said:

   Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: How many enemies have his kids' killed?

   
   
   Hopefully zero. Aren't they about 5 years old? But if they have, then I've got new heroes.

   
   
   You should go with him Pete.

   
   
   
   
5. Peter Bowman

   

   11 posts
   
   1/21/2013 12:01 PM

   I'll send you a card. Wait by the mailbox.

   
   
   
   
6. Wahlin Scott B

   
   1/21/2013 12:01 PM

   Peter Bowman, CGCS said: I'll send you a card. Wait by the mailbox.

   
   
   Just out of curiosity, what country is so much better than America?

   
   
   
   
7. Hardy Andrew

   
   1/21/2013 12:01 PM

   Scott Wahlin, CGCS said:

   Peter Bowman, CGCS said: I'll send you a card. Wait by the mailbox.

   
   
   Just out of curiosity, what country is so much better than America?

   
   
   Canada? But I hear Florida and Monaco cater to selfish goofs like Phil

   
   
   
   
8. Peter Bowman

   

   11 posts
   
   1/21/2013 12:01 PM

   Scott Wahlin, CGCS said:

   Peter Bowman, CGCS said: I'll send you a card. Wait by the mailbox.

   
   
   Just out of curiosity, what country is so much better than America?

   
   
   I have no idea. But if having had your kids given/taken bullets is the key to taxation, Phil should be happy paying a 100% tax rate, I would think.

   
   
   
   
9. Andy Jorgensen

   

   1 posts
   
   1/21/2013 12:01 PM

   The guy that does some of my fertilizer spreading has a son that catches for an MLB team. He has to pay state taxes in every state he plays ball in. Plus state taxes in the state he resides permanently in along with local and property taxes. He also has another house in the city in which he plays ball, and has to also pay local and property taxes for it. So, take a $1,000,000 a year salary and take home pay is under $200,000. But who are we kidding here, I'd take $200,000 take home salary if I knew I was waking up to play baseball everyday. Humpf.

   
   
   
   
10. Clay Putnam

    

    33 posts
    
    1/21/2013 1:01 PM

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said:

    Peter Bowman, CGCS said:

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: How many enemies have his kids' killed?

    
    
    Hopefully zero. Aren't they about 5 years old? But if they have, then I've got new heroes.

    
    
    You should go with him Pete.

    
    
    

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: I have spent much of my career as a General Manager. There is a huge difference in the professionalism between PGA Class A and GCSAA Class A. With a background in maintenance I am sorry to admit it, but it
    is true.

    
    
    
    
11. Wahlin Scott B

    
    1/21/2013 1:01 PM

    Clay Putnam, CGCS said:

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said:

    Peter Bowman, CGCS said:

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: How many enemies have his kids' killed?

    
    
    Hopefully zero. Aren't they about 5 years old? But if they have, then I've got new heroes.

    
    
    You should go with him Pete.

    
    
    

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: I have spent much of my career as a General Manager. There is a huge difference in the professionalism between PGA Class A and GCSAA Class A. With a background in maintenance I am sorry to admit it, but it
    is true.

    
    
    As superintendents we ask why we are not held in higher regard than PGA Professionals. Clay, Pete and Ron are happy to answer that question.

    
    
    
    
12. Peter Bowman

    

    11 posts
    
    1/21/2013 2:01 PM

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said:

    Clay Putnam, CGCS said:

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said:

    Peter Bowman, CGCS said:

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: How many enemies have his kids' killed?

    
    
    Hopefully zero. Aren't they about 5 years old? But if they have, then I've got new heroes.

    
    
    You should go with him Pete.

    
    
    

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: I have spent much of my career as a General Manager. There is a huge difference in the professionalism between PGA Class A and GCSAA Class A. With a background in maintenance I am sorry to admit it, but it
    is true.

    
    
    As superintendents we ask why we are not held in higher regard than PGA Professionals. Clay, Pete and Ron are happy to answer that question.

    
    
    Pretty sure you are the one who has apologized for/retracted statements made on this Forum at a rate higher than Clay, Ron, and me combined over the last couple years.

    
    
    
    
13. Sandy Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    1/21/2013 2:01 PM

    What difference does it make what he does for a living. Are you guys on the more liberal side of the spectrum really ok with the government taking in excess of 62% of what you make? That is crazy! Phil is huge into charity in the San Diego area. I am pretty sure he and Amy have a foundation already. This is what happens when you create absurd state taxation along with unfairly high federal taxation. Why would anyone work that hard to get 38% or less of what they earn? That just isn't logical. Mel, trust me, he is paying every bit of that in California!

    
    
    
    
14. Wahlin Scott B

    
    1/21/2013 2:01 PM

    Peter Bowman, CGCS said:

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said:

    Clay Putnam, CGCS said:

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said:

    Peter Bowman, CGCS said:

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: How many enemies have his kids' killed?

    
    
    Hopefully zero. Aren't they about 5 years old? But if they have, then I've got new heroes.

    
    
    You should go with him Pete.

    
    
    

    Scott Wahlin, CGCS said: I have spent much of my career as a General Manager. There is a huge difference in the professionalism between PGA Class A and GCSAA Class A. With a background in maintenance I am sorry to admit it, but it
    is true.

    
    
    As superintendents we ask why we are not held in higher regard than PGA Professionals. Clay, Pete and Ron are happy to answer that question.

    
    
    Pretty sure you are the one who has apologized for/retracted statements made on this Forum at a rate higher than Clay, Ron, and me combined over the last couple years.

    
    
    I don't think you have ever apologized for your statements. That does not mean you shouldn't have.

    
    
    
    
15. Jon Gansen

    

    1 posts
    
    1/21/2013 3:01 PM

    Sandy Clark, CGCS said: What difference does it make what he does for a living. Are you guys on the more liberal side of the spectrum really ok with the government taking in excess of 62% of what you make? That is crazy! Phil is huge into charity in the San Diego area. I am pretty sure he and Amy have a foundation already. This is what happens when you create absurd state taxation along with unfairly high federal taxation. Why would anyone work that hard to get 38% or less of what they earn? That just isn't logical. Mel, trust me, he is paying every bit of that in California!

    
    
    
    Phil and Amy charities: Birdies for the Brave and Special Operations Warrior Foundation.
    
    Looks like he does his part.

    
    
    
    
16. Peter Bowman

    

    11 posts
    
    1/21/2013 4:01 PM

    Jon Gansen said:

    Sandy Clark, CGCS said: What difference does it make what he does for a living. Are you guys on the more liberal side of the spectrum really ok with the government taking in excess of 62% of what you make? That is crazy! Phil is huge into charity in the San Diego area. I am pretty sure he and Amy have a foundation already. This is what happens when you create absurd state taxation along with unfairly high federal taxation. Why would anyone work that hard to get 38% or less of what they earn? That just isn't logical. Mel, trust me, he is paying every bit of that in California!

    
    
    
    Phil and Amy charities: Birdies for the Brave and Special Operations Warrior Foundation.
    
    Looks like he does his part.

    
    
    Ya, but his kids have never been shot at by the enemy, so he should move out of the country.

    
    
    
    
17. Sandy Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    1/21/2013 5:01 PM

    No, they haven't but as you and I know, when Phil moves out of Rancho Santa Fe, his small few hole golf course on his property will probably go by the wayside. That will mean how many will lose their jobs because Phil moves?. Pete, early indications are showing that the new higher taxes are bringing in far less revenue than Jerry Brown forecast in his balanced budget. Yes, California, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts and those other states that increased taxes will really benefit, won't they! Lets compare in a few years with the states that have lowered or even eliminated several of their taxes. I wonder which ones will have the best business environment and the highest employment rates? California will not be on the winning side and Phil is just another example of people using their brains and voting with their wallets! Why would anyone think that working hard for a dollar and only keeping .38 cents is a wonderful thing?

    
    
    
    
18. Jon Gansen

    

    1 posts
    
    1/21/2013 6:01 PM

    About the Special Operations Warrior Foundation
    
    The Special Operations Warrior Foundation is a top-rated nonprofit organization that supports the military's special operations forces and their families through three programs:
    
    - College Scholarships for the surviving children of fallen Special Operations Forces
    
    - Family Services, including educational counseling
    
    - Wounded Special Operations Forces Support
    http://www.specialops.org/
    
    Raised over 3 million 2012 Birdies for the Brave golf event at TPC Sawgrass.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXGu-kEL8c Long video!
    
    Scott what do you say now??

    
    
    
    
19. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    1/21/2013 6:01 PM

    Jon Gansen said:

    Sandy Clark, CGCS said: What difference does it make what he does for a living. Are you guys on the more liberal side of the spectrum really ok with the government taking in excess of 62% of what you make? That is crazy! Phil is huge into charity in the San Diego area. I am pretty sure he and Amy have a foundation already. This is what happens when you create absurd state taxation along with unfairly high federal taxation. Why would anyone work that hard to get 38% or less of what they earn? That just isn't logical. Mel, trust me, he is paying every bit of that in California!

    
    
    
    Phil and Amy charities: Birdies for the Brave and Special Operations Warrior Foundation.
    
    Looks like he does his part.

    
    
    Thanks, I kind have forgotten about his charities in this off season. I can agree those are great things, but then my question goes back to, with these charities and foundations is he still paying 62%? Then he needs a new accountant or tax guy, doesn't he?
    
    And back to a tax policy question......if we were to lower the rates and remove the deductions for charity would that hurt the charities? If Phil were to hang it up, what would become of those charities and foundations, what about the people they help? (I guess I would be appealing to his sense of helping with something that is bigger then himself and family, but I can understand if he works that hard to make all that money, wanting a bigger say in how it's spent?) How about those people that the charities and foundations employ? What about the great things he makes sure gets done and doesn't cost taxpayers (in particular what he is funding, what would the cost be to the taxpayers or because government is now so into cutting spending, would these military personal be the ones to suffer)?
    
    In a way with his charitable goodness I applaud him, (and all those people who are doing great things), but when he complains about the taxes he pays, yet he is still incredibly wealthy, in what other country could he have become that wealthy playing a game? I can get where Andy is coming from, and I also kind of think that way. I'm willing to see both sides of the argument.
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
20. Jon Gansen

    

    1 posts
    
    1/21/2013 6:01 PM

    I think Mel that you have to look how are money is spent. Do you believe it is reckless or they are taking care of our interests and spending wisely. Who are we or the government for that matter to think he has to much or plenty enough. I think what he is doing is probably dollar for dollar way better than what the government can accomplish with the same 3 million.

    
    
    
    
21. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    1/21/2013 8:01 PM

    Jon Gansen said: I think Mel that you have to look how are money is spent. Do you believe it is reckless or they are taking care of our interests and spending wisely. Who are we or the government for that matter to think he has to much or plenty enough. I think what he is doing is probably dollar for dollar way better than what the government can accomplish with the same 3 million.

    
    
    Jon, you might be right, and for a good cause, but I also wonder how much when government tries to use the same $3 million how much is wasted to show that it is not, if you get what I mean, (of course there probably is a lot that probably wasted from mismanagement either through people not skilled or having good resources to use either). Of course there are some great charities that use a majority of their money for the good of the charity (upwards of over 90% being targeted, with the rest for administration of the charity and other charities where only 70% might reach those in need, but I guess any money reaching the needs is better then none?).
    
    As to what government spends, we probably should all be more involved in where it's going, of course we might not agree on what the priority should be. I'm sure when we figure that out maybe the tax rates could be more the same for everyone.
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
22. Sandy Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    1/22/2013 9:01 AM

    I am disappointed that Phil is apologizing for his rant. Who in the world of golf complained to him and suggested political correctness would be better than honesty. Phil, you have no reason to apologize for your honest feelings! Your honesty will not impact the integrity of golf! Tell the PGA or some sponsor to butt out and stick with your statement. If he wasn't pressured and really feels he was wrong voicing his opinion, I will definitely be disappointed in his decision. I still however respect him for what he has done professionally and with charity.

    
    
    
    
23. Steve Nelson

    

    0 posts
    
    1/22/2013 10:01 AM

    He wouldn't be the first golfer from Cali or elsewhere to make headquarters in FL for professional reasons. No biggie.

    
    
    
    
24. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    1/22/2013 4:01 PM

    Poor Phil. I feel terrible for him. How is he going to afford to buy a basketball team now?
    I'm sure that all of Phil's charity work is entirely driven by a desire to do good....I can't imagine that he ever spoke to his attorney regarding the tax advantages of a charity.
    Somebody who makes 46 million a year should probably keep his mouth shut about how high his taxes are especially since he makes his money by hitting a ball with a stick.
    Phil squandered a lot of good will with one ill advised remark.
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve

    
    
    
    
25. Peter Bowman

    

    11 posts
    
    1/22/2013 5:01 PM

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Poor Phil. I feel terrible for him. How is he going to afford to buy a basketball team now?

    
    
    I feel terrible for him because there are people in this country with that attitude.

    
    
    
    
26. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    1/22/2013 5:01 PM

    Pete, I really don't care about Phil or his money, but there are a lot of people who make a lot less money than he does who pay to watch Phil play golf and not to listen to him rant about something like taxes. Phil has the same amount of credibility regarding taxes or politics that any Hollywood actor has......none. So he should STFU.

    
    
    
    
27. Peter Bowman

    

    11 posts
    
    1/22/2013 5:01 PM

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Pete, I really don't care about Phil or his money (pssssss psssss....I think you do), but there are a lot of people who make a lot less money than he does who pay to watch Phil play golf and not to listen to him rant about something like taxes. Phil has the same amount of credibility regarding taxes or politics that any Hollywood actor has......none. So he should STFU.

    
    
    I guess every one of us has his own magic number at which it ain't hardly worth workin' no more if the govt is gonna take too much of it. Maybe Phil reached his number.
    
    I' don't even know what my magic number is, but I'll know it if I get there, or if it gets to me.
    
    What's your magic number, Steve?

    
    
    
    
28. Ronald Kirkman

    

    42 posts
    
    1/22/2013 6:01 PM

    Peter Bowman, CGCS said:

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Pete, I really don't care about Phil or his money (pssssss psssss....I think you do), but there are a lot of people who make a lot less money than he does who pay to watch Phil play golf and not to listen to him rant about something like taxes. Phil has the same amount of credibility regarding taxes or politics that any Hollywood actor has......none. So he should STFU.

    
    
    I guess every one of us has his own magic number at which it ain't hardly worth workin' no more if the govt is gonna take too much of it. Maybe Phil reached his number.
    
    I' don't even know what my magic number is, but I'll know it if I get there, or if it gets to me.
    
    What's your magic number, Steve?

    
    
    Greetings;
    
    I aint no Hollywood actor or a PGA Touring Pro but just a lowly X-Rtired Superintendent so I won't bitch that the government took $3,949.20 in federal taxes from my Social Security check in the year 2012. I know I have reached my number. You young men and women out there better save enough for your retirement cause if you don't Uncle Sam will be mad at you as he/she wants a piece of the pie. Oh! we can thank Al Gore for the SS tax cause he broke the tie vote when he was VP to tax SS.
    
    If we add up all the taxes we pay (Now think about that) make a list and you will see. Mr. Phil keep fighting it, I am in your corner but on a lower scale and lest the people forget - the problem is the same!!!!!!
    
    Capt Kirk
    Retired Alien
    Needham Golf Club
    Needham, MA

    
    
    
    
29. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    1/22/2013 6:01 PM

    I think I would be very happy with less then half of what Phil makes, but I don't think any amount is going to stop me working until I reach retirement age. I don't think anyone making the kind of money most of those guys do, it's not in their DNA in my opinion or they wouldn't have made it in the first place. Now I can see them slowing it down and enjoying things more. Steve Stricker is doing that, I know I'm doing it now with our son in high school and we trying to be involved in his activities and supporting him.
    
    Hey didn't Gov. Romney just build a house in California? You know the one with the elevators for his cars? I wonder if he will flee? Probably not since most of his income is from investments.
    
    I wonder if Phil would have approached the issue differently he would have accomplished more and maybe avoided some of the backlash? Maybe by stating how the tax structure for those in California along with his federal tax rate would be a deterrent to those small businesses in California in similar situations.
    
    I've heard some business have been moving, yet some are staying, why might that be? Could some be getting tax credits or breaks to stay? I would guess yes, but I can bet Phil Mickelson Inc. (so I can understand some of his frustration) isn't getting the same, what about his club company Callaway, they are in California aren't they? Are they planning on moving? Have they gotten tax breaks to stay in California?
    
    I know I'm ranting now, but just trying to look at all angles. Heck if tax breaks aren't given (and I understand why they are) to corporations and big businesses, maybe Phil wouldn't have to pay as high in percentages. Just guessing, don't know enough about it really.
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
30. Steven Huffstutler

    

    11 posts
    
    1/22/2013 6:01 PM

    Peter Bowman, CGCS said:

    Steven Huffstutler, CGCS said: Pete, I really don't care about Phil or his money (pssssss psssss....I think you do), but there are a lot of people who make a lot less money than he does who pay to watch Phil play golf and not to listen to him rant about something like taxes. Phil has the same amount of credibility regarding taxes or politics that any Hollywood actor has......none. So he should STFU.

    
    
    I guess every one of us has his own magic number at which it ain't hardly worth workin' no more if the govt is gonna take too much of it. Maybe Phil reached his number.
    
    I' don't even know what my magic number is, but I'll know it if I get there, or if it gets to me.
    
    What's your magic number, Steve?

    
    
    I'm not sure why you feel this needs to be personal, Pete. If it was Shawn Penn venting his liberal politics, you would be the first one to question his credibility. It is very difficult for me to feel sorry for millionaires who have to pay taxes. I'm not sure what you magic number is in reference to, though.
    
    Guys like Phil have enjoyed every advantage that this country has to offer at no personal cost. He never had to spend a day being uncomfortable, all he had to do was be a good golfer, which he is. People like him should be willing to pay for the advantages that they enjoy and have enjoyed at other people's cost.
    
    I don't think his kids need to dodge bullets, though.
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve